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Thread: Faction Champions Encounter

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Kk

    Arms Warrior, Survival Hunter, Arcane Mage, Afflic Lock, Blood DK (self-heals?), Mutilate Rogue

    To be sure, no one had a different spec? I'm fairly certain it is the same every time, in that you won't see a Fire mage one time and Frost the next. There are not 'tanks' per se, and no prot spec'd Warriors/Paladins. Only caster druids, no kitties. No Holy Priest.

    The rogue in our 25 man kill was almost definitely using hemo (as well as shadowstep, although I'm less certain about that one), but I'll double check the logs when I get home.
    Last edited by garrodd; 08-20-2009 at 08:43 AM. Reason: added shadowstep part

  2. #82
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    Thanks for keeping these threads going. It's helpful to people to have a same-day thread like this even for those who wait on our movie guides.

  3. #83
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    This is going to be interesting on hard, that's for sure.

    As it stands now, the damage level just isn't intense enough to be threatening. If you're keeping up on dispels and stay away from the melee NPC's, the raid damage is very low. The rogue will shadowstep, but otherwise just focus fire things down. If you can get CC's off, especially ones that don't break at one point of damage or multi-target controls, it helps. Primarily, it's just an assist-train-and-kite encounter.

    -Splug

  4. #84
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    Another vote for the "warrior stay as protection" thing. Warbringer + Shockwave (esp. on initial engagement) + Concussion Blow + Taunts is a very, very good thing. If you have a mouseover Vigilance macro and raid frames, you can shift that 3% DR around which is small but may help, and it of course keeps your Taunt refreshed.

    Being able to keep track of who is locked out on DR for stuns and taunts is a big bonus here.

    As for strategy, we've had that warlock in both 10 and 25, and we killed him first in both cases since that hellfire sucks. In 10 we CC'd and then tankmez'd (as much as possible) the healers while we burned DPS; in 25 we killed two healers after the warlock then the rest in order of damage output.
    Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!

  5. #85
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    I didnt see it mentioned before.... so I'll say it now. You can stack on one side of the arena away from where your opponent spawns and they will jump down and NOT attack until you attack them. This was HUGE for us as it allowed us to mark up what we wanted without having to macro the world for markups.
    Deeps for show..... tank for dough.....

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    Another vote for the "warrior stay as protection" thing. Warbringer + Shockwave (esp. on initial engagement) + Concussion Blow + Taunts is a very, very good thing. If you have a mouseover Vigilance macro and raid frames, you can shift that 3% DR around which is small but may help, and it of course keeps your Taunt refreshed.
    We used 2x prot warriors, one on shaman and other on resto druid (banish kept breaking) while DPS went bananas on healer priest. We also put Vigi on each other to refresh taunts and tag other mobs as they attempted to go for clothies.
    Crommi | Archaic Order | Lightning's Blade EU

  7. #87
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    So, we downed them yesterday and I would like to share some experience about 25man version.

    Warrior
    Rogue
    Hunter

    DK
    Warlock
    Mage
    Shadowpriest

    Disc-Priest
    Holy-Pally
    Resto-Shaman

    My thoughts about this encounter are that the first group (Warrior, Rogue, Hunter) is the damage dealing group. These keep doing damage first, then use their other abilities. They are most dangerous and we killed them after the healers went down, starting with the Rogue. The second group is more annoying than dangerous. They CC a lot, but their dmg is low if their dots are dispelled properly.
    So, take out the healers first, then switch to the dmg group and then to the rest. (We tried it the other way round and Rogue and Warrior kept nuking people...) We also put our three tanks on Rogue, Warrior and DK to "tank" them and help people, who are under pressure of one of those. One player was assigned to stomp totems until the shaman went down.
    Our shamans put down tremor totem, earthbind and grounding, blew hero after the pull and, if some people are dead after the healers went down its not a big problem.

    Greetings from Anetheron
    Trycon

    PS: Maybe you could also tell, which classes do dmg and which are just annoying

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrodd View Post
    The rogue in our 25 man kill was almost definitely using hemo (as well as shadowstep, although I'm less certain about that one), but I'll double check the logs when I get home.
    I looked over the log last night (I'll post it later if anyone wants, but I can't from work) and he did indeed use hemo, but not shadowstep. He also used blade flurry.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrodd View Post
    I looked over the log last night (I'll post it later if anyone wants, but I can't from work) and he did indeed use hemo, but not shadowstep. He also used blade flurry.
    I think shadowstep just doesn't show up in the logs. I do not see it in our logs either, but I was "tanking" the rogue and he was definitely using it to jump over and go to town on clothies.

  10. #90
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    I’m curious about what aspects of pvp do and don’t apply for this fight.

    For example, can you banish the resto druid? Will the shadow priest pop out of form and heal? What about dispels/purges (do they do it?)?

    I forget our exact comp, but we couldn’t get through the encounter. The survival hunter kept wyvern stinging me (a disc priest), but didn't seem to hit too hard. Our biggest problem was the enhancement shaman, who just seemed to eat whatever was closest. Our first strat was to focus on the shadow priest, but it sounds like she’s one of lesser threats.

    They were also focus firing (especially clothies) a lot and people were saying to pop your threat reduction (ice block, etc) abilities when this happens. I’m also curious about how this translates from pvp. For example, does fade work? How about the lock agro reduction ability? Will the priest attempt to mass dispel off bubbles/ice blocks/cc?

    Are pvp trinkets useful?

    According to the wow forums, it also seems like the shaman and resto druid are two of the worst npcs you can get.
    Last edited by Petrin; 08-21-2009 at 11:02 AM.

  11. #91
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    When we got the Boomkin we noticed that he was tagged as 'humanoid' (the hunter was gonna fear him). So I imagine the Druid is the same.

    Also, from inspecting the combat logs (not vigorously) I don't think they can crit. This was supported by the Shaman's "Wrath Totem" giving an ap/sp bonus with no crit bonus.

  12. #92
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    25 Man strat [additional post]

    I posted this strat summary in the video thread, and I'd like to post it here as well for you guys. This worked awesomely for us.

    Faction Champions | 25 Man Strategy

    Enemy Set up = 10 + pet
    BACK ROW Hunter | Resto Druid | Disc Priest | Resto Shaman | Ret Pally

    FRONT ROW Mage (arcane) | Rogue | Death Knight (unholy?) | Arms Warrior | Warlock (image below is from the previous night w/ Shadow Priest)


    1. Enemy Healers Shaman - kill target #1, Priest - kill target #2, Druid (tree) - kill target #3.

    All dps on Shaman. Prot warrior (me) and rogue were assigned to Priest for butt tons of interrupts and stuns. Druid (tree) was left to be a. banished, b. feared, and c. left alone pretty much.

    The initial pull and burning down of kill target #1 is the most important part of the fight.

    2. Initial Pull - Prot warrior charges in at Priest - kill target #2 (who is positioned at the back center of cluster) at the same time Fury warrior charges in at Ret Pally on the far right end. (Keep fury war on ret pally to interrupt BoP) Immediately I thunder clap and Intimidating shout which scatters the entire left half of the crowd (5 enemy fear), and my fellow fury warrior charges in to fear the other half (especially the warlock and two dps plate baddies). This spreads the mobs around and allows for a singling out of Shaman - kill target #1.

    3. Dps down. Go epileptic on Shaman - kill target #1. Heroism/tricks/fok/army/dispell/stun/blood boil/you name it. At about 80-70% dmg on shaman the baddies start to regroup, have a warlock fear the warrior. Put blind or something on dk, not essential but those two plate dps-ers (DK and Warrior) are the only two to occasionally be aware of and cc when they start coming back.
    This in contrast to other strats above that have DKs use death grip, chains of ice and taunt. Ours DKs didnt want to go frost, instead they keep the blood spec on for massive dps. This requires non bads in the raid to be on the watch for Whirlwind and Aggro and snare/trap/root/cc/whatever to fend them off.
    4. Once Shaman is down burn Priest - kill target #2 which has been locked up till then. Have warrior and rogue then move to Druid (tree) - kill target #3 Just to annoy interrupt and whatever so that priest can be nuked. Once the priest & tree is dead its all about plate baddies.

    All healers dead? good

    5. Kill Warrior or DK, I'd go with Warrior. Disarm, taunt, stun, slow, repeat, then onto the DK. At this point a semblance of a normal tanking raid encounter is established. Both Tanks can now taunt/charge/intercept/revenge/concussion/ on the same target. Best policy would be to stun/lock/fear/wtvr on DK while warrior is dual tanked.

    DPS jerks gone? nice

    6. Kill Warlock and Boomkin if you have one.

    - After this it's your ball game. We paid attention to the Rogue, and Ret Pally, but they were scrubs so we didn't sweat it too much. Last to go was the Hunter.

    Got my Girdle of Bloodied Scars last night because my fellow Tankadin felt charitable. GL!

    Last edited by Killga; 08-21-2009 at 03:37 PM.

  13. #93
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    We hit this up on 25's last night. This was one of the more difficult encounters that we had dealt with in a while. We almost got this last night, we just ran out of time, but after 4 hours of trying things, I came up with this strat and we almost nailed it first go.

    Our Faction Champions lineup

    Healers: Shaman, Paladin & Priest
    Melee DPS: Warrior, Rogue & DK
    Ranged: Shadow Priest, Hunter, Warlock & Mage

    I had myself and my off tank stay in prot gear (I threw shield block gear on). We had CC rotations on the Paladin and Priest (a mage assigned to each, they would call when they got DR, a druid would chain banish until sheep DR dropped off) with a warlock on each for back up fears. DPS nuke on Shaman

    Our rogue starting off sapping the mage.

    Now this is where we reduced the damage our raid was taking:

    Myself and a frost spec DK went to town on the warrior. Death gripping, taunting, chains of ice, more taunts, intercepts, shockwave, concussive blows, disarms. basically every trick in the book, and kept it off the raid 90% of the time.

    My off tank stayed prot and did the same with the rogue (could probably do with another DK on it maybe)

    DPS killed shaman, switched to priest; We then decided to keep a cc rotation on the paladin while we took out some of the more dangerous DPS (warrior/rogue/DK)

    Hope this helps


    - Coolade of Nagrand Oceanic

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrin View Post
    Iím curious about what aspects of pvp do and donít apply for this fight.

    For example, can you banish the resto druid? Will the shadow priest pop out of form and heal? What about dispels/purges (do they do it?)?

    I forget our exact comp, but we couldnít get through the encounter. The survival hunter kept wyvern stinging me (a disc priest), but didn't seem to hit too hard. Our biggest problem was the enhancement shaman, who just seemed to eat whatever was closest. Our first strat was to focus on the shadow priest, but it sounds like sheís one of lesser threats.

    They were also focus firing (especially clothies) a lot and people were saying to pop your threat reduction (ice block, etc) abilities when this happens. Iím also curious about how this translates from pvp. For example, does fade work? How about the lock agro reduction ability? Will the priest attempt to mass dispel off bubbles/ice blocks/cc?

    Are pvp trinkets useful?

    According to the wow forums, it also seems like the shaman and resto druid are two of the worst npcs you can get.
    Just to answer some of your questions:

    1. For the most part the adds will, in fact, react in a similar way to an opposing pvp team: Any dispellers can and will dispel (a lot), the adds will CC you (i.e. the mage will poly someone), the shadow priest will dispersion when low, etc...

    2. With regards to how threat mechanics work on this fight, the short answer is they are effective but subject to pvp diminishing returns. For example, warrior taunts do, in fact, work. But if you try to taunt on CD 3 times in a row the mob will become immune. Also, they don't seem to have a lasting threat modifier like in pve and will cease to be effective at (or before) the completion of the threat mechanic. I believe you can banish the resto druid but whenever he is up he was always our first kill since his insta-hots are the most difficult thing to control on this fight.

    3. I have yet to see an Iceblock/ Divine Shield being Mass Dispelled but I'm sure its possible.

    4. As for the enhc shaman ripping apart your raid, the best way to deal with the melee is to "tank" them. On my DK, I was able to keep the warrior locked down for about 90% of the fight. Just use a tank and have the tank rotate dmg, taunts, interupts, stuns and anything else they can. Biggest thing is try not to chain taunts or the mob will become immune. Controlling the melee dps and dispelling is currently the key to this encounter imo!

  15. #95
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    Wondering if gear resillience would matter since this fight is mostly considered as PVP. Would anyone know? Just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylis View Post
    Keep in mind the mobs are said to have pvp CC durations for any CC on them so you would most likely have to go through one type of CC and then switch to another (possibly before the first mob is down given the shorter durations). though given the health they might have you might not have to worry about it but its still good to be prepared to on the fly.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchmore View Post
    Wondering if gear resillience would matter since this fight is mostly considered as PVP. Would anyone know? Just curious...
    At the end of the day, while this fight has many of the mechanics of a pvp match it is still a pve fight. Gearing resilience is not only unnecessary (as with proper CC and good heals even the squishiest of clothies should be able to escape more or less unscathed) but will greatly reduce any throughput your character may have in most cases.

    The way the fight is tuned right now, healers have to have a lot of throughput to keep people up through high burst damage. Dps has to be able to out heal the periodic healing that the adds will invariably get (from insta -hots and totems especially), and tanks would have better avoidance/mitigation gear than resil.

    So the short answer is no, resil is not the way to go for this fight imo.

  17. #97
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    My advice :)

    Hey fellow raiders

    After reviewing a lot of forums searching for tactics and ideas for this encounter one thing is certain, and that is that there is no definitive tactic for this encounter. It all boils down to the setup you are facing, and what people you have at your disposal.

    After a few tries back and forth with different strategies we finally managed to down this on 25 man last night. Now before we begin I would like to make a few pointers.

    1.Our guild is not superbly geared, and a lot of our players still need LOTS of upgrades from Ulduar, So this fight is not a gear check
    2.We went from Łber fail try (didnít even get one down) to downing it. So if you fail. Take a few minutes discussing what went wrong. Did CC fail for some reason (and why?), do we need to keep special attention to this guy etc. And then try again.

    Here is the setup we got:

    Healers:
    -Priest
    -Paladin
    -Shaman

    Ranged:
    -Hunter
    -Shadow Priest
    -Mage
    -Warlock

    Meelee:
    -Warrior (Arms)
    -Rogue
    -Death Knight

    When their group is full the 3 healers is the most dangerous of the lot as they can pump out some heavy heals. Therefore they were top priority.

    After some failed attempts where we went after the priest first while trying to lock down the other healers with CC we decided to swap over to the shaman first (Advice 1. But we were still failing because way to many heals went through. Too often did our CC chains fail on the other healers cause people died or a sheep got caught in an AoE. So we incorporated this strategy on the healers (we will get to the others later).

    The Pull
    The pull in this fight is very vital. A missed CC will mean that someone will die, and starting a fight with 20 people is far from optimal.

    What we did was have our prot warrior and a dps warrior charge in from both sides and use their AoE fear. That buys everyone a few seconds to do what they are supposed to do.
    Immediately after we had our DKís Deathgrip the shaman over to our dps group so they could start on him ASAP.
    Healers
    Shaman
    This guy is top priority. He was fitted with a {skull} and targeted for destruction first. That means all your free dps should focus fire this guy down.
    -We had 1 meelee focus on his totems. Yes it is an annoying job as he will place them again seconds after they get killed. But you canít afford having his tremor totem up dispelling your fears, and his healing stream totem heals for quite a lot.
    -Purge Purge Purge. He uses a lot of buffs on himself to avoid damage (just ask your friendly resto shaman how many they have). Purging them is the key to getting him down fast. We had 1 or 2 Shamans who did nothing but that until he was dead.

    Priest
    This guy is Discipline and will use Penance and Flash heal if allowed to do it. He will propably also try and Power Word: Shield the shaman, but that isnít a problem as he is being chain purged.
    -We tried something on the priest which I havenít seen anyone else do, or atleast mention on any forum. We had 3 warlocks in our raid and we had them all put out their fel hunter and have it attack the priest. Throughout the whole fight he didnít manage to get off any heals (or at least nothing worth of mention)
    -Thatís pretty much it. The 3 fel hunters kept him out of combat all by themselves and the 3 locks could focus fire the current nuke target and use Howl of Terror if the meelee classes got into the center.
    -The priest didnít die till 7th since the championsí dps is a much bigger issue with 2 healers down than the last healer. And besides. We had him locked down pretty good.

    Paladin
    As a holy paladin he will of course use his bubbles on people. When the shaman gets low he will HoP him. But again this will get removed by chain purge.
    -We had 2 people on this guy from the beginning. A DK and one of our DPS warriors. Their main objective was of course to interrupt all they could. But at the same time dps him so much that he had to pay attention to himself instead of the shaman.
    -If you manage to handle the shaman correctly you should be able to move on to the Paladin as your 2nd target before he becomes immune to interrupts.
    -When he gets low on HP he will Bubble (HS is on cooldown). With luck he will get caught in your priests Mass dispel cycle of the meelee. But have one of your warriors use Shattering Throw on him.
    -It is key to get the shield of him quick or he will heal up nice and good.

    Meelee
    Warrior
    This guy is arms specced, and can pump out some dangerously high burst damage on especially your clothies. Other than that he is primarily full dps. He charges at times but other than that seems to favor Mortal strike and Bladestorm.
    -The easiest thing to do with this guy is have a tank do his best to keep him away from your main raid force.
    -We used a protection paladin to (tank him). He used Seal of Justice and reported it proccing remarkably well (donít rely on it though, but a random stun once in a while isnít to be undervalued)
    -He will become immune to taunts after a short period of time. During that time it is your tanks duty to minimize the havoc he can make until he can be taunted again. Our paladin used HoS and BoP whenever he targeted a clothie (when they werenít on cooldown). And also used HoJ to keep him stunned for as long as possible.
    -If you get targeted by this guy it is advisable to move away. Use Nova, Death coil or whatever you have to get away. Your tank is doing what he can to keep him off you but if he is beating on you it means he is immune to taunt at that time.
    -The warrior was the 3rd to die cause of his burst abilities and huge AoE with bladestorm.

    Death Knight
    Seems to be blood specced, and like the warrior can throw out some nasty burst especially if your dispellers are sleeping or simply end up only getting dispelson lock and shadow priest debuffs.
    -The death knight was tanked by our protection warrior. Same deal here. Kept him taunted away from raid when possible, and then stunned and CCíed as much as possible when immune to taunt.
    -Again. Move away if he targets you.
    -The Death Knight died as the 4th mob.

    Rogue
    When we played against him he used Hemorrhage and Shadowstep at will.
    -Cause of the shadow step he is extremely hard to tank. At first we tried to have our Prot Pala tank him, but the constant shadow steps made it hard to keep track of him. So we ended up just having a few people keeping an eye on him, and by a little luck he got caught in the AoE fear cycle in the middle of the room a lot.
    -As the rogue seems to be the opponent who is hardest to control he is a good target for random sheeps and cyclones etc.
    -The rogue didnít die until 9th.

    Ranged
    Warlock
    The warlock werenít a big problem for us. Sure he kept the dispellers busy, but the dreaded Hellfire that so many people feared didnít seem to pose a big problem for us.
    -He seems to be affliction specced casting Unstable affliction.
    -We basically let him mind his own business as his burst werenít that great and could be outhealed by our healers.
    -If you have dpsíers with spare CC make them use it on him if no one else is around.
    -Seeing as he keeps up a lot of DoTs we decided to take him down as 5th.

    Mage
    Again as a caster he isnít a big problem. Our healers did complain when he counter spelled them, but tbh that is the least of your problems in this fight.
    -He casts random polymorphs which again isnít a big problem unless he uses it on a tank keeping track of meelee.
    -Like the lock we just let him run around casting his frostbolts and outheal them.
    -We decided to take him down as the 6th mob cause we had the disc priest well locked down and he was the most random of the lot remaining.

    Shadow Priest
    Not much to be said about the SP. He is one of the weakest in the group. We didnít pay much attention to him.
    -He managed to finish off a couple of people with mind flay cause they were already low on hp.
    -After the meeleeís died one of the tanks kept her a little occupied but that is not really nessecary
    -Died 8th.

    Hunter
    The hunter drops a few traps and generally tries to target people at range.
    -Target him with some random cyclones and sheeps if you can spare them. Other than that we just ignored him till dead last
    -He died last.

    Kill Order
    1.Shaman
    2.Paladin
    3.Warrior
    4.Death Knight
    5.Warlock
    6.Mage
    7.Discipline Priest
    8.Shadow Priest
    9.Rogue
    10.Hunter


    General advice:
    1.The pull is 80% of the fight. If you miss that vital CC in the beginning you will loose some valuable players before the fight is even started.
    2.Always, and I mean always kill the resto shaman first. His totems can really slow you down if he is left alive too long.
    3.Tell your dpsíers to get their eyes off recount and pay attention to their surroundings. One of the most dangerous things that can happen in this fight is tunnelvision from your dps. They need to learn that putting hamstring on the rogue chasing your squishy Ďmass-dispellingí priest is more important than winning the meters
    4.If you are ranged and getting targeted by their meelees then RUN. Donít stand beside the Arms warrior and expect the healers to outheal it. Use all means of escape until he finds someone else to target.
    5.Keep an eye on the debuffs you are supposed to have on the target as they will dispel a lot.
    6.Priests and warlocks should set up an AoE fear rotation in the middle so they donít blow their cooldowns at the same time.
    7.This fight can be won even if you lose some people along the way. And there is no enrage timer. We managed to get off 2 BL before the fight ended and about 7-8 people dead after 3 mobs were down.
    8.Once you have downed 3 it gets easier, but donít slack on dispels until the encounter is finished. Doesnít take much more than a screwup and you wipe.
    9.Donít save your cooldowns. If you have a CC and you havenít been assigned to use it for anything specific then use it on someone who could cause some havoc.

    Summary
    Using this tactic we went from wiping with 10 Champions up to clearing it within 2 tries. And like I said this is not a gear check as much as it is a communication check.

    Enzol out

  18. #98
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    Here's a trick if you get the priest/sham/paladin, rogue/dk/warrior, hunter/warlock/spriest/mage makeup. We assigned a tank and deathknight to warrior and rogue, and a protection paladin to deathknight. Keeping these guys taunted and slowed helped a lot. Calling out to CC ______ (raid mark) if they start heading to group to buy time to run back to taunt them out again. We killed the warrior first. Our prot warrior moved to shadowpriest to interrupt/stun and the deathknight moved to help the paladin.
    Last edited by Libertarian; 08-26-2009 at 02:38 AM.

  19. #99
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    1shot

    Just wanna add, we 1 shottet the faction champions 25 today, using my above post..

    and 8 ppl was new to the fight

    sooo.. it really works

    use those felhunters !

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