Raid ldr says my threat too low versus Pally tank.

[drae]

just sneak a vigilance on the pally.. /grin

In all seriousness don't.. that's a joke.

Check out the flow chart posted here. I think it was posted already... but it's so easy to understand that every new warrior tank should see it.

Vigilance your highest DPS.

Spam heroic strike till your fingers bleed.

Remember the goal of threat production is to stay above your dps. There's no worry if your at 5k and your dps is at 3k... even if your paladin friend is at 10k, all that extra threat is only good for stroking epeen.

When I'm tanking a boss my goal is to produce enough threat to keep a buffer zone of ~10% over my DPS.. ie: considering my threat as 100% I want my DPS at 90%... that provides a minimum of 20% cushion before they pull aggro (melee) or 40% (ranged). Once I reach that TPS level, the rest of my itemization goes to survival. There's no reason for me to be double my DPS' threat; if im double my DPS' threat then I can afford to wear more mitigation.

The only goal of threat production is to stay over your DPS.
Hell I can out TPS my palladin co-tank... if I sacrifice 10% avoidance and 5k health. But whats the point IF my DPS never pulls aggro?

[Gumurak]

But what happens after you get that initial burst off and the pally has still managed to outthreat you?

This poster hit it right on the head. Theres two thing that bother me to warrior tanking.

1.) Paladins
2.) raid leaders that ride the paladin tip without acknowledging class mechanics. And realizing bad tanking.

So here is what I mean by this. I tank side by side exclussively with a paladin on my server. His name is Abuz and we play on the Thorium Brotherhood server (yes an RP server lawlz away but havent found a serious place to transfer to).

I am happy to tank side by side with him. Even though his threat far exceeds mine he knows when to back off. And when to come forward. Everyone understands how tautn works now. Most of these bosses are tauntable. So threat is not an issue in gapping. If your RL is telling you your threat doesn't compare to a paladin. And you are trading on mobs and he out threats you or rips it off of you. You need to bring this to your raid leads attention. Because he is either....

1.) Pulling an epeen contest and out threating you intentionally.
2.) Doesn't understand tanking dynamics and is threat throwing all the damn time.
3.) Wants to be number one tank and has tunnel vision to all other priorities.

Tanking with more than one tank requires those tanks to realize thier strengths and weaknesses. The have to know when to taunt, when to move, when to threat, when not to threat, when to pull from the other, when to back off. If your tanking partner doesn't understand this or won't. Then the issue is primarily but not exclusively thier fault. And even more so on the raid leads fault for not understanding wtf he's doing when it comes to tanking dynamics with mutliple tanks.

[weirjamin]

If you look in the 3.2 patch notes for prot warrior when shield block is active it gives shield slam a 100% bonus to threat.

I also agree you should not be following an exact rotation. Use your abilities as they proc. Keep up revenge, shiled slam and throw in a devistate as the timer gets low. I keep up Demo Shout and Commanding shout as well. If you are on MT and not OT can have pretty much endless rage for Heroic Strike.

[Gumurak]

If you look in the 3.2 patch notes for prot warrior when shield block is active it gives shield slam a 100% bonus to threat.

Warriors

• Battle Shout: Radius increased to 30 yards.
• Bloodrage: This ability now generates 20 rage initially, and 10 rage over the next 10 seconds. The health cost is unchanged.
• Commanding Shout: Radius increased to 30 yards.
• Execute: This ability now never costs more than a total of 30 rage. The tooltip for Sudden Death has been revised to remove reference to that maximum, since the ability now behaves that way even when untalented.
• Shield Slam: The benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player's level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player's level.
• Talents
  • Fury
    • Armored to the Teeth: This talent now provides 1/2/3 attack power per 108 armor, up from per 180 armor.
    • Bloodsurge: Notification that Slam has become instant now appears in floating combat text.
  • Protection
    • Devastate: Weapon damage and bonus per Sunder Armor on the target increased by 100%. This ability now requires a shield to be equipped.
    • Shield Specialization: Now provides 5 rage on a block, dodge or parry instead of 2 rage on a block.

No it does not.

[Muffin Man]

So why use SB? Because I can, it still has threat attached to it and its on a CD. not a large one but still. Priorotize system works off what you throw first and procs from there on out. There is absolutely no reason NOT to use SB.

Fastly becoming my favorite thread
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...at-values.html

SB does all of 36 threat. Since most mobs you care about threat on are immune to daze throw that out the window. 36 threat is roughly 7 ticks of bloodrage.

SB is off the GCD and costs 10 rage (7 with FR)
HS is off the GCD and costs 12 rage (with imp HS)

I think I know which one I'd rather use as filler.

Ofc, you can use both at once (and use a special!) but I think I'd rather pocket the rage for an avoidance streak.

Plus I would hate to be in the habit of throwing SB for threat then forget that there's something I should be interrupting on this one boss, but I realize that would be user error.

[Padinbann]

Imo opnion as a pally i agree with most ofth other people who have posted in saying that there is noting wrong wth your threat i a pally and even i sae im OP i say this ecause i have yet o meet a warrior on my server who can out Single target tank me without taunting then i get it righ back with a SoR crit or the SoR and HotR combo

[Gumurak]

Fastly becoming my favorite thread
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...at-values.html

SB does all of 36 threat. Since most mobs you care about threat on are immune to daze throw that out the window. 36 threat is roughly 7 ticks of bloodrage.

SB is off the GCD and costs 10 rage (7 with FR)
HS is off the GCD and costs 12 rage (with imp HS)

I think I know which one I'd rather use as filler.

Ofc, you can use both at once (and use a special!) but I think I'd rather pocket the rage for an avoidance streak.

Plus I would hate to be in the habit of throwing SB for threat then forget that there's something I should be interrupting on this one boss, but I realize that would be user error.

Like I stated I do it because I can. It's on a 10 second cooldown. Unless the fight is one that requires I use it as an interupt. I use it. Because it has 36 threat and I use it with HS. Difference, HS is on next swing. SB is now. Threat modifer is low but then agian its a matter of personal preference. Todays warriors have no issues with rage while fighting a boss, or at least I don't. And of course it's removed from my rotation on trash.

[weirjamin]

Warriors

• Battle Shout: Radius increased to 30 yards.
• Bloodrage: This ability now generates 20 rage initially, and 10 rage over the next 10 seconds. The health cost is unchanged.
• Commanding Shout: Radius increased to 30 yards.
• Execute: This ability now never costs more than a total of 30 rage. The tooltip for Sudden Death has been revised to remove reference to that maximum, since the ability now behaves that way even when untalented.
• Shield Slam: The benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player's level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player's level.
• Talents
  • Fury
    • Armored to the Teeth: This talent now provides 1/2/3 attack power per 108 armor, up from per 180 armor.
    • Bloodsurge: Notification that Slam has become instant now appears in floating combat text.
  • Protection
    • Devastate: Weapon damage and bonus per Sunder Armor on the target increased by 100%. This ability now requires a shield to be equipped.
    • Shield Specialization: Now provides 5 rage on a block, dodge or parry instead of 2 rage on a block.

No it does not.

Ok OK, i usually do my home work. Has somthing changed so that after applying shild block shileld slam no longer has 100% bonus threat. I know I was using it on the PTR, and I swear seeing it on the post release 3.2.0 notes. Ill just link my sources below, which i should have done on my oritional reply post. If it really dosn't id like to know for sure.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Shield Block
Shield Block: Shield Slam no longer benefits from the increased block value granted by this ability. However, while Shield Block is active, Shield Slam generates 100% additional threat.

The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Patch 3.2 gets weird Shield Block: Shield Slam no longer benefits from the increased block value granted by this ability. However, while Shield Block is active, Shield Slam generates 100% additional threat

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> I'm confused on the shield slam change
Shield Block: Shield Slam no longer benefits from the increased block value granted by this ability. However, while Shield Block is active, Shield Slam generates 100% additional threat.

The change specifically says that Shield Slam won't benefit from the 100% block value of Shield Block but that it will simply do double the threat. You lose the damage but not the threat. There isn't anything confusing here.

[Gumurak]

I never said it didn't. I just simply said it wasn't in the last patch notes. As to not confuse anyone. Thank you for clarifying thou.

[weirjamin]

Ya my bad. I went and did all my research being as analy retentive as I am. They did remove it for the general release, but It def was there for PTR, was pretty sweet.

My apologies for posting bad info.

[Trullion]

[quote=uglybbtoo;268251]Long and short however at those stats you should not be having trouble on single target, on aoe mob tanking forget it you never going to be able to match the pally its what they do.
/quote]

Sorry, I just cant buy that. I tank for my guild all the time on multi mobs, and on single mobs. I dont have threat problems. In fact, to date only one person has been able to pull threat off of me and that was a dual wield DK in frost aura doing dps while specced as a tank. Even then though, I was able to keep taunt up on the target and pull him back to me while holding him long enough for taunt to refresh itself.

The trick to multi mob tanking is to develope a rythym wherein you are simply tabbing through each target, throwing an instant attack like devaste or shield slam, and then tabbing to the next target. A good fast weapon like the Axe of the SenJin Protector helps tremendously as long as you can keep up with it. Using the glyph of sunder armor along with the glyph of devastate really stacks up the threat on more than one mob at once. You should haveplenty of rage so keep cleave up.

As far a special threat rotation...forget about it. I hear a lot about it, but basically playing a warrior is about whack-a-mole with a priority sequence. Since I am dual specced Prot/Arms I dont have any problems with it. Fury warriors seem to hav a little bit of time adjusting to it.

A basic multi mob tank sequence for me would start with a charge, followed by a thunderclap, and a shockwave. Then I would begin my "rotation". By rotation I mean, devastate, shield bash, and from then on its basically whatever comes up, and if two things come up choose whichever has the highest priority for generating rage. Ie. if revenge procs and you have devastate up, fire off a revenge. Also, keep thunderclap and shockwave on cooldown, they really help a lot for rage generation.

Basically though, anyone who tells you that warriors cannot tank multi mobs is full of it. I do it all the time in heroics and in raids, and dont have a problem. Is it harder to do? Yes it is. We dont have some of the nice magic efffects like soem of the other classes do. It takes more work, but it is very very doable.

Besides....who ever said that warriors liked it easy?

[Gumurak]

This post wasn't about multimob tanking, it was about his raid leader stating he was not holding threat like a paladin. But your words of encouragement are noted.