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Thread: 3.2 Threat Values (Devastate)

  1. #21
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    1256 Attack Power
    ...
    928 threat, minus devastate damage is 377 extra threat (30% of 1256 AP).
    2524 Attack Power
    ...
    1522 threat, minus 437 melee and 644 devastate is 441 extra threat (17.4% of 2524 AP)
    I would rather say, that 377 = 1256*5% + 315 and 441 = 2524*5% + 315. So 315 + 5% AP bonus threat.

    The glyphed devastate numbers look like 2*(315 + AP*5%) as bonus threat.

  2. #22
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    Awesome, thanks for cracking that open erob. Now lets see...

    Shockwave/Conc Blow Points:
    • Slightly Higher Average Damage

    Devastate Points:
    • 15% Crit from talents (Also benefiting from bonus Deep Wounds damage)
    • 10% Crit and/or 5% damage from 2 piece bonuses
    • Higher Average Threat
    • Can trigger Sword and Board
    • Additional threat from increased AP not affected by armor
    • No Cooldown
    I wonder...

  3. #23
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    Also to add to Squishemhard's list...

    Shockwave/Conc blow are also our only 2 dependable stuns! One of them being an AoE! Both with signifigant duration, and damage. Powerful tools!

    Why would it makes sense to keep them on CD?

    Save yer SW/CD for when you need em boys and girls, learn to use your stuns as mitigation or interupts, and leave Dev to your threat!
    November 23, 2004 8:27:03 AM - Glomgore 10+ Years of tanking? Priceless

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by erob View Post
    I would rather say, that 377 = 1256*5% + 315 and 441 = 2524*5% + 315. So 315 + 5% AP bonus threat.

    The glyphed devastate numbers look like 2*(315 + AP*5%) as bonus threat.
    So, good call here. It matches everything I posted except for the very last entry, where it's off by 50. It's not fresh in my mind exactly what my setup was there, but it's possible that it could be explained away as some other factor (a rage gain or something).

    I'm happy going on the premise that Devastate is now Damage + 315+5%AP unglyphed and Damage +630+10%AP when using Glyph of Devastate. I'd like to see more confirming numbers of course.

  5. #25
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    Am I missing something here? The glyph of devastate for me on live only stats:

    "Your Devastate now applies two stacks of sunder armor"

    Is there something underlying in the glyph which I have missed?

  6. #26
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    Yes faint, it seems it's adding threat to the ability from stacking 2 sunders at once, in the form of the equation above. Plug your AP into that equation and that's yer bonus! Basicly it causes your Dev to do more, putting it above SW/CD as far as priority go..

    This is actually a pretty big deal to warriors, this alters our keymashing!
    November 23, 2004 8:27:03 AM - Glomgore 10+ Years of tanking? Priceless

  7. #27
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    Righto. Devastate was the highest damage contributor of yesterday's raid (some ulduar nubbing...) Average damage done was about 1500, crits averaged out on 3400. I was running the most standard deep wounds specc. I can post a link to the parse if it helps people.

    However. Watching omen closely for the last week I am seeing spikes upwards in threat if I use concussion blow and Shockwave... That should be odd (freak occurrance critting?) if the claims in this threat are correct.

    I haven't really been theorycrafting for warriors (did loadsa stuff for hunters ages ago). Can someone help me to break things down into a nub-readable format? For one - there are a lot of people reading this that should all be able to grasp what's up with the devastate change and how it and the glyph would affect their rotation.
    My lack of proper signature actually is a proud minimalistic stand

  8. #28
    I will add anecdotal evidence here that I have been able at least a half-dozen times in the last week to pull aggro during the first 10 seconds of a pull that our Protection Paladin is tanking. This is something that might happen more like once a month since WOLK. Before people yell at me for being an idiot, let me just say that rage/threat/DPS since WOLK release has been such that after an Avengers Shield and beginning the 969, I have never been able to catch this Pally in threat, so I just launch in with SS, Devastate and if I get a Sw&B proc, I take it without hesitation without impacting the other tank.

    So imagine my surprise that now I can SS, then get two Devastate crits and pull aggro off of the Paladin.

    Anyhow, thanks for this thread. It looks like the Glyphed Devastate is multiplying the entire bonus threat, instead of just the AP-based threat, which is fantastic, and honestly makes Devastate glyph pretty awesome.

  9. #29
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    I tried Glyph of Devastate yesterday in Ulduar-25. Hodir hard mode was easier than ever to keep aggro on. Even pulled aggro on trashmobs while pretty ragestarved from a prot pally.

    Gauntlet to Thorim was a lot smoother too, feels like mobs are sticking to me a lot better.

    Definitely recommend this to all warriors. I dropped Glyph of Blocking for this and
    don't see any way back now.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurken View Post
    Definitely recommend this to all warriors. I dropped Glyph of Blocking for this and
    don't see any way back now.
    Glyph of Blocking is a funny one for me. Ever since it was first put into the game it seemed to be an unquestionable "Take this glyph always!" suggestion. Warriors don't depend on their Block Value for mitigation, so that part really isn't a big deal. In normal boss tanking gear I have 1065 BV, which the "10%" increase brings me up to 1147 (a 7.6% increase). However, this does make my shield slams go from around 1450 up to 1520 (So around a 5% damage increase) on a non-sundered Lvl 80 dummy.

    [Also interesting, while I was playing around for this thread; you gain the Glyph of Blocking effect BEFORE your first shield slam lands. So it's not like you have one wimpy shield slam and then all the rest are buffed. The very first shield slam you perform is boosted as well. This also means that throughout a fight, if for whatever reason you don't shield slam within the 10 second window, you aren't losing any damage/threat on your subsequent shield slam.]

    Anyway, I'd say that Glyph of Blocking is still a priority glyph, as it's the only glyph that has a direct affect on the damage of one of our highest damage and threat abilities.

    Not that this thread was really intended to be a discussion on overall glyph selection, I'd say Glyph of Blocking and Glyph of Devastate are the two primary glyphs, with Glyph of Revenge (low % of Heroic Strike usage), Glyph of Heroic Strike (high % of Heroic Strike usage), or Glyph of Vigilance (for those that really want just a threat boost) being the third choice. But again, opinions vary greatly on glyphs; some swear by using double Cooldown glyphs.

  11. #31
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    I'm sort of confused on exactly what happens here.

    When looking at Devastate or Sunder Armor, why is the melee hit removed? I know it is it single out how much threat is purely from the ability. Was there just a melee swing that snuck in there that is being removed?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayon View Post
    I'm sort of confused on exactly what happens here.

    When looking at Devastate or Sunder Armor, why is the melee hit removed? I know it is it single out how much threat is purely from the ability. Was there just a melee swing that snuck in there that is being removed?
    The addon that reports the threat values can only spit out data as fast as it's received from the server. Same with Omen, if you ever watch it you know it's spiky and lags a second behind the ability. Threat data is only transmitted once per second, so it's possible for multiple attacks to be lumped together in one threat data packet. And like you've already realized, you have to remove the extraneous data (melee swings, threat from rage gain, etc) in order to peg the special ability's threat.

  13. #33
    Ok I'll be the bad guy here and say what's been on my mind for a while now...considering the buffs to Devastate and the uncertainity of how well it could possibly scale with AP especially when you consider it glyphed.

    Note: This is talking about unlimited rage situations.

    Glyph of Devastate + 2 piece Tier 9 (5 percent more damage from Devastate)

    ^ Will that ever cause Devastate to do more threat than Revenge (Talented) ?

    Is it possible we could see SS > Devastate > Devastate > Devastate > SS doing more TPS than SS > Revenge > Devastate > Devastate > SS?

    If not how close will Devastate (glyphed with 2 piece Tier 9) be in terms of threat compared to Revenge?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishoptwo View Post

    Is it possible we could see SS > Devastate > Devastate > Devastate > SS doing more TPS than SS > Revenge > Devastate > Devastate > SS?
    I also think this could be very possible. At some point, like when you use a slow weapon or just a weapon with high average damage, I can imagine devastate could beat Shield Slam too. so Devastate > Devastate > Devastate... would generate the most tps.

    unfortunately I could not find the whole theorycrafting behind this with a concrete conclusion. Satrina said it's on his list but atm he has no time.

  15. #35
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    Alrighty, got some time to start on this. Went and spec'd my testing spec (no deep wounds, shield spec, damage shield, etc.) Removed glyph of devastate.

    Gotta raid soon, so I'll have to finish testing later and write up more thorough results. Preliminarily, I am getting:

    damage + 16.3%AP
    or
    damage + 316 + 5% AP

    That is holding all the way through 5 sunders and beyond. I'll have to collect a lot more data points to figure out what's correct. I should have time to do that this weekend.
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  16. #36
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    A very nice find, could be that little extra bump that I seem to need v our other tanking classes.

  17. #37
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    I noticed last night when we were doing kologarn, that while the paly tank was tanking, I was staying right up with him just spamming dev. Holding at 5k tps just spamming dev.
    I do not currently have the dev glyph so I will be trying it out tonight.

    I have put dev more into my rotation since the buff and its common to sit around 8k tps spiking up to 10-11k pretty often. If this glyph does what you guys are saying, Ima be OP!

    On a side note...WTB more deeps! That paly tank was sitting at around 3200 dps where I was sitting around 2400 dps. Not fair!

  18. #38
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    Did some testing today on Unbound Seers in Crystalsong Forest. Here are the results:

    The first number is Devastate damage, the second is the total threat, as gained through Satrina's addon.
    All tests were done in Battle Stance, to prevent rounding errors in the Def Stance modifier.

    NO GLYPH

    980 AP
    475 - 67120
    899 - 101440 (3)
    433 - 63760

    2760 AP
    639 + 128 dmg shield = 97600 (87360 devastate) (1)
    647 - 88000
    723 - 94080

    2851 AP
    741 - 110100 (2)
    705 - 92960
    680 - 90960

    3401 AP
    729 - 97120
    805 - 104000 (3)

    980 AP
    581 - 104720
    1347 - 166000
    630 - 108640

    2760 AP
    861 - 141360
    881 - 142960
    756 + dmg shield 130 = 143360 (132960 devastate) (1)

    2851 AP
    818 - 138560
    886 - 144000
    819 - 138640

    3401 AP

    969 - 155120
    916 - 150880
    894 - 149120



    (1)On both these occasions the threat number received directly after Devastate was 36240. This number is ~16.413% of my AP or EXACTLY 315 + 5% AP.
    (2) 14260 extra threat seems to come from blocking a melee attack (147 damage shield + shield mastery rage gain) right after.
    (3) Most likely conflict from updating last tick from Bloodrage when I already body pulled.

    With the exception of the 3 above cases, all numbers fit perfectly into a 315 + 5% AP formula. Notice that in all glyphed tests, the threat gained from AP is all even, so the unglyphed number is rounded and then doubled (or simply applied twice)

    Using 0 base threat, the scaling in these tests went from 14.265% to 37.143% for unglyphed and 28.53% to 74.286% for the glyphed tests (exactly double ofcourse). This margin is too great to assume a non-base scaling.


    Conclusion:
    It's pretty much certain that Devastate does 315 +5% AP as extra threat from applying the Sunder Armor debuff.


    A side note on that: would this mean that the Sunder Armor attack (tested as 360 base), actually just do the debuff + 45 threat?

  19. #39
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    doesn't battle stance have -30% threat modifier?

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  20. #40
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    definately 20% reduction, or straight up dmg would totally be messed up
    Last edited by Airowird; 09-28-2009 at 11:20 AM.

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