+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Pigeon Holeing Healers

  1. #1

    Pigeon Holeing Healers

    Well this isn't a negative post though thinking about it the title can be taken that way.

    What I want to do is just confirm that I have the strengths of certain types of healers correct. I know that a good healer can fill almost any roll you throw at them but certain classes have an easier time with certain types of healing.

    Is this list correct?

    Holy Paladins - Strongest with single target healing.
    Disc Priest - Strongest with single target healing.
    Resto Shaman - Strongest with raid healing.
    Holy Priests - Strongest with raid healing.
    Resto Druids - Strongest with raid healing.

    The reason I ask is because in pugs I want to be able to just assign healing quickly with minimal worry. Thats if I am unlucky enough to pull together a pug with no healer that wants to organise the raid healing

    Thanks

    Phil.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    186
    Hi there,

    some classes do indeed make it easier to fulfill a certain role. Nevertheless can any healing class be good at any role depending on spec and glyphing...

    Cheers!
    Skaggi

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Notlob its a palindrome
    Posts
    736
    World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

    Have a look at the other fights too.

    and World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

    People put disc into this nice of saying they are solely tank healers but time and time again ive yet to see where disc is a weak aoe healing, Note luli has healed on freya 2 elders very well, prehaps hodir but even then World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

    and World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (for a non alt pass)

    However Paladins (the class I currently play as a man but as ret) are NOT as effective or as versatile as: Disc, Holy priests, Resto shamans or Resto druids (all be them considered weak MT healers they are great in general).

    I do think paladins are the most niche healing class currently with MT healing as their primary and almost sole focus. You don't get a paladin to raid heal you get a priest/druid or good shaman.

    Shaman's are often considered the weaker spec these days but a good one is very effective.

    For your list...

    Holy paladins should always be on tanks
    Disc priests can be either tank or raid but can usually help out and still keep up a tank.
    Resto shamans can be tank or raid
    Holy priests are raid or tank (better on raid)
    Resto druids are best put on raid

    For the sake of pugs its a bit tricky to decide who heals what :x, warning priests are quite skill dependant in both specs and may perform badly no matter what further warning most priests running recount and being disc won't use pw:shield which as you can see is often the largest bit of my 'healing' done.

    Hope this is insightful it started on the wrong reply but mebe put some insight for others.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    21
    Philistine you pretty much got it right. Shamans aren't that great at raid healing in my experience however. I mean they CAN do it, I just think it's harder for them than for a druid or holy priest. What they ARE very good at is keeping ES on the tank and chain healing the crap out of melee. They are also amazing spot healers for people that get slag potted, gripped, napalmed etc. Disc priests are amazing single target healer but they can't really aoe heal that well from what I've seen. Our disc putting shields on the raid before tantrums and phase 2 mim is awesome, but after those are gone I don't see disc priests handling raid healing like a druid or holy priest could.

  5. #5
    I think Nicki explained it perfectly. Not to say all healers should be locked into those assignments, but if you have new or pug healers, those are the safest assignments.

    However, if the healer is a bit shakey, I'd place them as a secondary healer for a tank. Nothing sucks more than having your raid healer yell "I'm oom!" two minutes into a fight because they were casting the wrong heals or are undergeared. I'd rather have a disc healer pick up raid and the holy priest tank/one group heal in those situations.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    91
    I should point out there are two approaches to healing on Shamans:
    1) Raid Healing - Chain heal spam, self explanatory.
    2) Main Tank healing - Utilizes Earth Shield, Riptide, and Lesser Healing Wave (typically with large amounts of +crit gear) to single target heal. These Shamans also have Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave which increases the heal from Lesser Healing Wave if the target is also affected by their Earth Shield.

    Something to consider.
    [Insert witty signature here]

  7. #7
    Thanks for the info there guys. The info on the shaman healing is also nice to know

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    44
    Don't forget the godly combination of a disc priest & tree on a tank, imo they perfectly compliment each other...absorption from the disc priest to give the hots time to roll.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    www.ordnance-guild.org - Ordnance is back!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    That Place Above the USA
    Posts
    2,282
    Trees compliment any healer. The can front load the tank with heals while the other healer gets off their first heal. By having the HoTs on the tank, there is no waiting for healer reaction time, its already here, and followed up by a punch from a strong single target healer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    7
    I find these posts surprising, because I've found them virtually the opposite in my raiding. Though I admit to not pugging very much. :-) I find pugs to be uniquely painful experiences.

    I'm a resto Druid for main and am a great tank healer, the HoTs are awesome. But I'm also a strong raid healer. I'm typically assisnged to tanks with the understanding that when I can I throw HoTs on the raid as well, but am focussed on the tank only.

    I've only ever encountered Shammie healers who are strong raid healers and weak on tank heals.

    I find pallies to be extremely flexible and useful, but yes, strongest on single target.

    And priests, I've only ever encountered them as strong single target heals.

    Maybe I need to change servers?

  11. #11
    [quote=Namataya;270400]

    And priests, I've only ever encountered them as strong single target heals.
    quote]

    o_O Really? I think you should read up on Holy priests... We are VERY strong raid healers, we have a spell for just about every situation.

    Raid heals:
    Circle of Healing (Instant smart multi target heal)
    Prayer of Mending (Instant STRONG smart raid heal)
    Holy Nova (Instant party wide but for VERY few fights...)
    Prayer of Healing (Strong group heal, can also have a hot attached)
    Empowered renews (Strong hot)
    My ultimate favorite... Devine Hymn > AKA "Oh shit raid might wipe!" spell. Huge mana cost, long CD, but heals the individuals with the lowest health raid wide over time.

    Single target heals:
    Flash heal (weak for tank healing and a mana waste to spam, better for raid whack-a-moles)
    Greater heal (by the time it finally lands someone else has healed the tank or they are dead... Unless you are in your 4 piece T7.5 gear, not worth casting)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Notlob its a palindrome
    Posts
    736
    [quote=Amallthia;270571]
    Quote Originally Posted by Namataya View Post

    And priests, I've only ever encountered them as strong single target heals.
    quote]

    o_O Really? I think you should read up on Holy priests... We are VERY strong raid healers, we have a spell for just about every situation.

    Raid heals:
    Circle of Healing (Instant smart multi target heal)
    Prayer of Mending (Instant STRONG smart raid heal)
    Holy Nova (Instant party wide but for VERY few fights...)
    Prayer of Healing (Strong group heal, can also have a hot attached)
    Empowered renews (Strong hot)
    My ultimate favorite... Devine Hymn > AKA "Oh shit raid might wipe!" spell. Huge mana cost, long CD, but heals the individuals with the lowest health raid wide over time.

    Single target heals:
    Flash heal (weak for tank healing and a mana waste to spam, better for raid whack-a-moles)
    Greater heal (by the time it finally lands someone else has healed the tank or they are dead... Unless you are in your 4 piece T7.5 gear, not worth casting)
    As disc; I use inner focus with 'Divine' Hymn it saves me the mana cost of the spell. Flash of heal is better in almost every situation to greater if anything a priest specced into divine fury is either experimenting for their own sakes or silly. That said I have used greater heal in 10 man ToC but this is the first time ive ever felt the need but probably because the other healers were generally weaker.

    But yes priests have pretty much got a spell for every weather pattern and then some.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicki View Post
    Flash of heal is better in almost every situation to greater if anything a priest specced into divine fury is either experimenting for their own sakes or silly.
    I wouldn't say it is "experimenting" or "silly" for a PVE holy priest to spec into Divine fury... It is a talent that Disc can skip over sure, but most holy priest have to take it to get to the middle of our tree.

    3/3 Improved renew, 5/5 Holy Specialization, and 3/3 Inspiration, we need another 4 point somewhere in the top of the tree to get the "core" talents. You're choices are scarce and not all that useful, even though we do not toss out GHeals very often there are those occassions where the tank healer dies or the tanks are taking alot of big hits. GHeal may need to be used and the reduced cast time helps.

    I use inner focus/Divine Hymn as well, especially on fights like General V where mana is an issue.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Notlob its a palindrome
    Posts
    736
    Quote Originally Posted by Amallthia View Post
    I wouldn't say it is "experimenting" or "silly" for a PVE holy priest to spec into Divine fury... It is a talent that Disc can skip over sure, but most holy priest have to take it to get to the middle of our tree.

    3/3 Improved renew, 5/5 Holy Specialization, and 3/3 Inspiration, we need another 4 point somewhere in the top of the tree to get the "core" talents. You're choices are scarce and not all that useful, even though we do not toss out GHeals very often there are those occassions where the tank healer dies or the tanks are taking alot of big hits. GHeal may need to be used and the reduced cast time helps.

    I use inner focus/Divine Hymn as well, especially on fights like General V where mana is an issue.
    well your talent spec is very telling of some inexperience for instance, no offense. So im going to cover it briefly.

    Talents from your spec that are of little to no use (debatable in some cases)
    Discipline Talents - 18 point(s)

    * Meditation - Rank 1/3
    Getting 1/3 in this talent is seriously a mistake, it ups the value of spirit on gear combined with the other spirit talents making spirit actually very effective for holy.
    * Improved Power Word: Shield - Rank 3/3
    Most good guilds raid with a disc priest, pw:shield is NOT something holy wants to or should be casting in almost all raid situations.
    * Mental Agility - Rank 3/3
    As a holy priest you are missing many vital talents by taking this true instants are cast alot but the loss of serendipty as only 1 example is terrible since prayer of healing is your other half of major raid healing also serendipty gives faster gheals if you really need them.

    Holy Talents - 53 point(s)

    * Holy Specialization - Rank 3/5
    Crit is good ok so why skip these extra points? holy concentration which you haven't taken enhances how good this is but obviously its nothing compared to what it was in TBC as a talent..
    * Divine Fury - Rank 5/5
    Again casting greater heal is probably the last thing you want to do if you do find yourselft tank healing alone something bad has happened and eventhen you probably pull enough HPS from a serendipty Gheal to recover when needed.
    * Desperate Prayer - Rank 1/1
    Can be nice but equally not necessary since your binding heal is quite effective.
    * Lightwell - Rank 1/1
    Well people voiced their laundry and i voiced mine. Given the nature of content (ie alot of moving) this talent falls flat in most respects however you can keep it if your desperate.
    * Empowered Healing - Rank 4/5
    This is tagged as one of the "gheal" talents mostly because its efficiency per point isn't that useful compared to other choices like the combination of test of faith (a raid healing talent) and blessed resillience (an overall scaling talent).

    /* The proper spec */

    The common PvE holy spec:

    Discipline Talents - 14 point(s)

    * Twin Disciplines - Rank 5/5
    * Improved Inner Fire - Rank 3/3
    * Improved Power Word: Fortitude - Rank 2/2
    * Meditation - Rank 3/3
    * Inner Focus - Rank 1/1

    Holy Talents - 57 point(s)

    * Healing Focus - Rank 2/2
    * Improved Renew - Rank 3/3
    * Holy Specialization - Rank 5/5
    * Spell Warding - Rank 5/5
    * Inspiration - Rank 3/3
    * Holy Reach - Rank 2/2
    * Healing Prayers - Rank 2/2
    * Spirit of Redemption - Rank 1/1
    * Spiritual Guidance - Rank 5/5
    * Surge of Light - Rank 2/2
    * Spiritual Healing - Rank 5/5
    * Holy Concentration - Rank 3/3
    * Blessed Resilience - Rank 3/3
    * Serendipity - Rank 3/3
    * Empowered Renew - Rank 3/3
    * Circle of Healing - Rank 1/1
    * Test of Faith - Rank 3/3
    * Divine Providence - Rank 5/5
    * Guardian Spirit - Rank 1/1

    What you notice is that far more investing is happening in holy. This is the most efficient way to spec according to most people. The only real debate is between empowered healing and test of faith where its a case of neither is incredible but if im raid healing alot it means test of faith is probably a bit more useful.

    Finally its not meant as any disrespect im sure you can do fine but fine tuning your spec for the way it works best can be a great feeling currently however you miss 2 vital points, have 3 wasted points and lack atleast 6 prominant holy talents that do impact your performance as a raid/tank healer.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8
    My 2c worth.

    With all the changes lately to healing classes the lines have become very blurred between tank healing and raid healing. Blizzard succeed very well in their "Bring the player not the class" moto when it comes to healing in LK. 3.2 expanded this even more. With the new Beacon of light it makes combo healing much more viable.

    For instance now u can basically have a Pally beacon the MT and raid heal with a druid keeping up hots on MT and raid heal. Massive damage incoming? Stealbreaker comes to mind. Again Pally Beacon and Disc Priest.

    And dont discount Holy Priests for tank healing. I run both specs and mostly I run Disc for tank healing but sometime when we are Melee heavy I go Holy instead so that CoH and PoH can hit all that cannon-fodder. I personally don't like Disc for 25 raid healing but for 10 it can be awesome. Especially with large amounts of crit. 1 PoH or Holy Nova can bubble 1/2 the raid. That's a lot of mitigation.

    Both Druids and H-Priests can tank heal but its kind of a waste of healing power. Shamans are awesome healers for both raid and tank and if anyone tells you different, they need to do more research. The 3.2 changes to Shaman are subtle but significant, the sum equaling more then it's parts.

    It's all about the synergy between the healers now imo. Some mix-ups work better then others but most work as long as you aren't too heavy on any one class/spec and the players are good.

  16. #16
    Ok, listing in the order from single-target specialized to raid-specialized, at least IMHO:

    1. Paladin
    2.
    3. Disc Priest
    4.
    5. Resto Shaman
    6. Holy Priest
    7. Resto Druid
    8.
    9.


    The gaps are there on purpose :P
    SQUEAK.
    -- (The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Notlob its a palindrome
    Posts
    736
    Quote Originally Posted by KnThrak View Post
    Ok, listing in the order from single-target specialized to raid-specialized, at least IMHO:

    1. Paladin
    2.
    3. Disc Priest
    4.
    5. Resto Shaman
    6. Holy Priest
    7. Resto Druid
    8.
    9.


    The gaps are there on purpose :P
    You should point out that disc is perfectly capable of raid healing better than holy priests in some cases. However disc/paladin are on par for single target healing disc is probably on top as the spec stands now. (paladins still slack with beacon and sacred shield up times).

    Some more logs to think about:
    World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis = XT hard mode (check out ignis aswell).

    World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis = Freya hard mode

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicki View Post
    well your talent spec is very telling of some inexperience for instance, no offense. So im going to cover it briefly.
    .....
    What you notice is that far more investing is happening in holy. This is the most efficient way to spec according to most people. The only real debate is between empowered healing and test of faith where its a case of neither is incredible but if im raid healing alot it means test of faith is probably a bit more useful.

    Finally its not meant as any disrespect im sure you can do fine but fine tuning your spec for the way it works best can be a great feeling currently however you miss 2 vital points, have 3 wasted points and lack atleast 6 prominant holy talents that do impact your performance as a raid/tank healer.
    LoL. That spec was specifically for our first attempt on General Vezax... It is not my normal raiding spec and I didn't bother to respec until this Sunday since that was the next day we went to raid.

    I thank you for taking time and effort to help, and completely agree with many of your suggestions. However, please do not judge a player by their armory, especially when they do not link it in the posts. I change my spec and glyphs around alot depending on the content we are working on, the healer make up of our raids (which changes quiet often, and no disc priest btw), and adjust talents to best work with my gear/raid buffs.

    Examples: Why would I not spec fully into holy specialization? Because with 3/5 points in it I sit at 33% crit raid buffed. I need more haste but Ulduar and ToC have basically not dropped anything for me in that department.

    If I can a) keep the raid alive, b) manage my mana, c) pull my own weight for healing output, I consider my job well done. I would not consider myself the *best* healer ever, but I am in no way "inexperienced".
    Last edited by Amallthia; 08-17-2009 at 11:32 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    458
    Quote Originally Posted by Namataya View Post

    And priests, I've only ever encountered them as strong single target heals.
    ok... umm... i would say u have only ever seen dic preists even then a dic priest can MT heal and pop of shields heals to the raid and in some fights be a better raid healer. if your judging from looking at metters its wrong, dic P have many abosrtion and dmg reduction tools... mate i would have another look into it imo.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    6
    I don't mind single target healing as a druid as well as raid healing. I have all four heal classes and my priest is dual specced disc/holy so I can fill lots of different positions. As a holy priest I always get hit for raid heals especially since prayer of healing isn't only limited to the priest's party anymore. That's where a resto shammy always had an advantage over a holy priest.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts