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Thread: 3.2 DK Tank problems

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missgunst View Post
    I think it dropps out of the new 5man instance, but dunno if heroic or normal mode is needed.
    It does drop out of the new 5man TOC dungeon. I got it on regular off of the last boss and it procs ALL THE TIME.

    +146 Stamina
    Chance on any melee attack to gain 7k armor for 10 seconds

    Oh yeah, and no cool down muhahahaha

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme View Post
    I change my gear very often, from DPS, DW DPS, tank, DW tank, pvp, frost PVP, etc. -- what I'm in now is my tank set, though:

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    It's a pretty good guess that if I was at 440 defense, I wasn't in my tank gear, heh, or maybe you were talking to Prestonite. It wasn't very clear.
    Dancing Rune Weapon doesn't add to personal threat. If you wanted to gain a little threat and keep Rune Tap, I would reccomend dropping Mark of Blood and DRW for 2/3 Subversion. If you wanted to gain a lot of threat at very little loss, drop Rune Tap and Imp. Rune Tap, Drop Mark of Blood, Drop DRW, and put 3/3 in Subversion and the rest in Necrosis.

    Other than that, your gear looks fine for all forms of tanking. I would guess it's just a mental block.

  3. #23
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    My threat is fine, except when the pally tank is being a dumbass and decides to dps with wings up along with righteous fury 15 seconds after we pull. Other than that, I'm not worried about threat. Losing mark of blood and rune tap is a HUGE cost, as self heals is the strength of blood. DRW is there to put more diseases up on the target, acting as another cooldown to chain with Empower Rune Weapon for bigger heals from Deathstrike during tough, expected burst damage such as Plasma Blast from Mimiron. Not sure if DRW's diseases improve DS, but one point certainly can't do much harm.

  4. #24
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    if your tank spec really didnt have maxed points in Toughness and Anticipation, you pretty much fail at designing tank specs.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KT6884 View Post
    It does drop out of the new 5man TOC dungeon. I got it on regular off of the last boss and it procs ALL THE TIME.

    +146 Stamina
    Chance on any melee attack to gain 7k armor for 10 seconds

    Oh yeah, and no cool down muhahahaha

    The Black Heart (Estimated 45sec ICD) Note that if you're not chain pulling, you eat up some of the ICD timer between pulls, making it seem to proc 'every pull'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme View Post
    Other than that, I'm not worried about threat. Losing mark of blood and rune tap is a HUGE cost, as self heals is the strength of blood. ... Not sure if DRW's diseases improve DS, but one point certainly can't do much harm.
    I can agree with Rune Tap myself, though MoB is going to heal for 2k on a 50k HP tank. Assuming the healing is applied after a hit, you need to survive the blow before what MoB does matters, IMO. I dropped MoB as a result. As for diseases, I suspect DRW's diseases don't count towards your DS healing, just as the threat is attributed to DRW instead of you.

    If you have a free point, DRW can be a useful spot, but there are better options.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalphir View Post
    if your tank spec really didnt have maxed points in Toughness and Anticipation, you pretty much fail at designing tank specs.
    Agreed.

    @Esch: Mark of Blood is very situational, and helpful in many fights. I use it more as a raid tool than a cooldown such as IBF. While MoB wouldn't be useful if I was at 20k health and the boss was about to hit me for 21k, it would be useful if I dodged/parried the last 8 attacks and the likeliness of a chain of damaging blows would land is high. 4% of my max health every time I take damage is very helpful, and it's often just enough to give the healers extra space.

    An added perspective is if the boss hits for 20k, and I get healed for 2k, it's a 10% damage reduction that can be boosted by abilities such as Guardian Spirit, Vampiric Blood, and anything else that increases healing taken.

    It just adds up and a use-talent is more effective than a passive one, when used correctly.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme View Post
    It just adds up and a use-talent is more effective than a passive one, when used correctly.
    Again:

    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme View Post
    ...when used correctly.
    What about if not used correctly? Or what about if you get stunned and can't pop it in time? Or what about your GCD? Or what about if you have a brain fart and can't find your button? Or what if a spider crawls across your foot while you're about to click it and instead you click unholy presence?

    The list could go on forever. I think use abilities are great, don't get me wrong, but having the general survivability ALL THE TIME is WAY more important.

    Personally, I dropped MoB for the reasons listed above by Esch...2k on a 50k tank is really almost nothing, plus if youre gonna die from the hit, that heal will never get to you, therefore it was wasted completely. You are far better off with the fully talented Rune Tap followed by an IBF and a pot than dropping MoB on a boss that hits for 25k.

    DRW is a completely useless tanking talent and I find it quite disturbing that anyone would think that one talent point in there is more effective than one talent point in something that may actually assist your tanking.

    Sorry if it sounds douchey, but seriously...DRW? Come on.......

  8. #28
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    I use my abilities correct all the time, I racial out of stuns when needed, I do pop it in time, I monitor GCD and GCD does not effect Rune Tap anyways, and use Blood Tap if I need a quick Rune Tap/Mark, I know where all my buttons are, and I'm not a clicker.

    :P

    2k on a 50k tank indeed isn't much, but keep in mind that it's 20 damaging attacks, without a cooldown. This can make a big difference in any situation. Any way you look at it, 2k heal instantly after a hit = 2k less damage taken, unless the hit kills. If the hit kills, one point in another talent wouldn't have saved me anyways. 2k less damage taken = completely worth it for just ONE point and ONE blood rune.

    I'll probably spec out of DRW next time I respec, but I'm not going to respec for one point. I hadn't known the diseases DRW applies don't effect my own DS. Thanks for that information!

  9. #29
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    I just logged out with my new defense gear on, i am -1 def cap w/o relic on proc. Which is never. So far I have been feeling less like butter.

  10. #30
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    Hit Cap- Mia

    Mia,
    I noticed in the two links you provided that your armory is showing a hit cap of 5% (203) I am new to tanking and tnew to wow for that matter and i am not 100 percent but isnt the hit cap for level 83 mobs 8 percent? this could be why you were missing the boss. Like i said i am new and trying to help and I also need help..
    I was wondering if anyone has any insight onto a good solid build with the new changes from 3.2 I see a lot of people talking about the changes etc.. and what works for them but have yet to see a solid build or list of tank builds since the new patch.

    Thanks..
    Tilley

  11. #31
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    Hello

    I'm having the same problems are described here and I dont think any amount of gear / talent tweaking is going to resolve this.

    I went into the patch as Blood tank but was getting instagibbed while 5 man heroic farming with Ulduar geared healers and DPS. I changed to Frost (Unbreakakle armor is very good against getting hit lots of times a small amount) and found my survivabilty to be better, but still not what I would expect for my gear.

    I still feel incredibly weak compared to my guild's warrior and pally tank, despite having virtually the same level of gear.

    I'm not new to this but at the moment it feels like something is not working with DK tank and I feel like im letting my guild down but tanking because I don't trust myself to not get smashed with crazy spike damage suddenly.

    I wonder if it is a scaling thing where they have nerfed us because the new t9 items are going to scale better on us than they do on the other tanks. In the meantime we might as well be clad in cloth and will never gear to gear up as tank because why would a guild want to gear up a tank that cant tank?

    One thing I am aware of that needs fixing in my gear is my Expertise. I had to regem/re-enchant quite a bit to compensate for the lost stamina from the patch so my previous 25 expertise is looking pretty shocking now

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Self-buffed:
    28% dodge
    20% parry
    25.5k armor
    31.5k Health

    This was the build I was using prior to changing to Frost on the offchance it was my Build that was killing me:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10192

    Going to go back to this later tonight but would appreciate anyone's feedback they might be able to offer
    Last edited by Mongia; 08-12-2009 at 02:19 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme
    2k on a 50k tank indeed isn't much, but keep in mind that it's 20 damaging attacks, without a cooldown. This can make a big difference in any situation. Any way you look at it, 2k heal instantly after a hit = 2k less damage taken, unless the hit kills. If the hit kills, one point in another talent wouldn't have saved me anyways. 2k less damage taken = completely worth it for just ONE point and ONE blood rune.
    Big Fat N, for one its not 20 damaging attacks, its 20 stacks over 20s and you would be lucky to see 10 heals from that...

    Im with Zivh in the sense that I just cannot fathom why tanks spec into things like MoB and Imp BP, the pitiful amount of heals recieved by either talent is only going to end up being a pitiful amount of overheal from your healers. IF you think these talents are somewhat helpful I would strongly suggest teaching your healers how to reactively heal, just because you die, doesn't neccesarily mean there is something you are going to fix within your toon.


    Oh and DRW = *sigh*

  13. #33
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    Ya, I was just stating what I saw in your armory. At this point, I'd trade out the essence of gossamer for your monarch crab. The mitigation from essence is highly under the new trinket. And the dodge is exceptionally better as a dk tank.

  14. #34
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    I'm having some of the same problems but on a more casual level. I run around with some friends and we only play a few times a week so we are mostly running Heroics, Naxx, and 5 man H:ToC. Post patch if I'm not with a really well geared healer I die ... I just take so much damage that the healer has to focus most of his energy on healing me.

    I know DKs fairly well. I'm using a cookie cutter frost tanking 2h build. I don't have any trouble with holding agro. I'm just hoping to increase my survivability some how. I've considered going 2h blood to see if it is much better.

    My armory is The World of Warcraft Armory

    I swear there are some Heroic bosses that can 2 shot me if I'm unlucky. Even with all cool downs popped I can't seem to tank for compared to a pally/warrior. Any ideas? I know my gear is meh... but for the dungeons I'm running it should be enough. As I upgrade I'm trying to pump up stam and dodge/parry.

  15. #35
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    You're stacking a lot of defense Rating which is really not so good. After reaching 540 Defense, you should not stack Def Gems anymore. You also got the wrong weapon enchant, you should use Glyph of Stone Gargoyle which gives you alot of defense and stamina. With that enchant you should be able to get rid of a lot of Def Gems and maybe even use stamina Dragons Eyes.
    You only got 26k Life which is really not a lot, so that is why it's hard to heal you. Bosses in Heros can give you a lot of damage with one hit, so you need to have enough HP to survive another one.
    It also looks as if you try to always get the socket bonus, which is not an important thing to do. When you are defense capped you should only socket Stamina Gems, no matter if the socket bonus is missed with them.

  16. #36
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    I realized after I posted that the link doesn't have the right set of armor and isn't up to date regardless.

    My def is sitting at 542 with 27.7K HP. I'll try switching the runeforging on my weapon. I've heard mixed review about boosting def beyond cap though recently for the sake of improving your avoidance (miss/parry/dodge). I hadn't really thought about gemming only for stam after def cap; I can try that. I'm a little worried if I'll have threat issues when my hit rating falls through the floor. I've also thought about trying blood tanking but not thrilled with the loss of aoe threat given how much aoe tanking I do.

    I was in H:ToC last night trying to tank and it was very rough. My priest healer was mediocre geared. Even with rotating my cool downs (dodge trinket, IBF, and unbreakable armor) the Dark Knight was tearing me apart. After several failed tries I switched to dps and we brought in a guild Pally tank with worse gear then me who was able to tank the encounter while only pressing 3 buttons (Course he has 10K more hp).

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missgunst View Post
    I usally tanked through the Surge on Vezax, just using IBF when he casted it. Now I have to tell my healers when to get me a cooldown, because IBF may not be rdy.
    You mean like every other tank has to? Hardly broken.

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