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Thread: DK health changes in 3.2 - should I switch specs?

  1. #1
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    DK health changes in 3.2 - should I switch specs?

    I have what (I hope) is a quick question.

    Unfortunately, the armory hasn't updated my character since Sat. so I can't give you a link that will help, except for this: Kelidara on wowhead. I don't agree with the the stats that wowhead gives (I know it's not including my stoneskine gargoyle runeforge, for example), but if you are curious about my armor, you are welcome to take a peek. I maintain that profile myself, so it's not whimsical like the armory.

    What I can tell you:

    I'm newly 80 and currently frost specced for tanking (dual-specced dps/blood). I've worked hard to get my defense and stamina up and am currently at a defense of 563 and with a health of 24.9k (both unbuffed, with the exception of frost presence - the health that wowhead is giving is incorrect).

    I'm told I need 25k health to do well in tanking heroics, so I've worked hard towards that, but with 3.2... I'm afraid I'm going to be watching all that hard work go down the drain. Then this afternoon it occured to me - there are stamina buffing abilities in the blood tree. Is it possible that I could respec my tank build to blood and get some health there? I tried playing around with it and came up with this:

    Current (Frost) and Proposed (Blood) builds

    I realize that these builds are both pre-3.2, but when I played around with them, it looks like when the frost presence nerf goes live, it looks like the blood build could give me a decent chunk of extra stamina (~860 health with my current gear?) and also toss me some personal healing abilities, such as blood tap and improved blood presence. However... I'm not sure whether I'll be losing out on an disproportionate number of other defenses by leaving the frost tree.

    My hope is that this will still allow to me begin tanking heroics and maybe when my gear gets better, I'll be able to switch back to frost. Does this blood spec look like a viable *beginning* tank build for a new dk tank who might having health issues? Or am I trading off more health for more defense that I might get in the frost tree?
    Last edited by lady2beetle; 08-03-2009 at 01:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't worry about it too much, 22k health for a dk tank in heroics should be fine if you're crit-immune and your healers don't completely suck. There are a few places, such as H-HoL and H-OK that I'd avoid right out of the gate.

    Plus you can get some stam food and a Stoneblood flask for approx 2k health if you're concerned.
    Last edited by Griff; 08-03-2009 at 01:55 PM.

  3. #3
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    A few notes on gear:
    Change meta to the gem that increases armor (and therefore EH)
    Change cloak enchant to armor ( you have plenty of defense)
    Change Bracer enchant to +stam

    What are your progressions because those can be a tremendous help (esp if they are BS and JCing).

  4. #4
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    In 3.2 Veteran of the Third War will be reduced to 3% stamina from the current 6%. Ultimately, the effective health gains from Veteran will thus land you in about the same place Improved Frost Presence puts you now. Whether you feel you need the number on a character sheet or not as a means to attract pickup interest is another matter, but from a survivability standpoint that particular change is more or less functionally neutral.

    Stepping back a bit and looking at blood versus frost overall, blood makes for a fairly difficult multi-target tanking scenario. As trash is a large portion of most heroics, I think you'll find frost's superior multi-target threat to make it the stronger spec for that content tier. At a raid level when there are other tanks to share multi-target pulls, it's a smaller concern.

    -Splug

  5. #5
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    i say it, repeat it with me:

    the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling, the sky is not falling.

    if you like frost tanking, make it work, even if your health goes down a little. rechant crappy gear if you need to with chants that arent worth the gear, change to JC and/or blacksmith to get more gems for stam, work up piece by piece, run with people you trust, whatever, do what you want to do and are comfortable with.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lady2beetle View Post
    My hope is that this will still allow to me begin tanking heroics and maybe when my gear gets better, I'll be able to switch back to frost. Does this blood spec look like a viable *beginning* tank build for a new dk tank who might having health issues? Or am I trading off more health for more defense that I might get in the frost tree?
    IMO (and many others) Frost is THE entry level tanking spec for DKs. This is due to the ability it has of generating instant threat which is not extremely gear dependent, as well as the fact that it provides additional mitigation through multiple talents. UBA, Frigid Dreadplate, and Improved Frost presence are great for dropping the amount of damage you receive.

    I didn't even worry about my HP until I was in Ulduar. I was tanking Naxx 25 with only 27k unbuffed hp and not having any issues on any boss throughout the entire instance.

    IMO, HP is not the king of stats until Ulduar. Naxx you will be fine with decent avoidance and 25-27k unbuffed health. That should put you around the 35-38k hp mark which is more than enough HP to do fine in there.

    I would definitely prioritize getting rid of your greens first. You've only got two left, and there are some really easy replacements for you to get in Heroics--even if you go in as DPS with a better geared tank--chances are he/she will not need the upgrades and you will get some free tanking loots. You can also make it known to your group that you are gunning for tank gear and will pass on DPS gear if you think you are not ready to tank the Heroics. Most groups will not cry as long as youre not running with total newbz.

    If you are comfortable with frost, I say stick with it. It is a great tree to begin your tanking career and will carry you into Ulduar with ease. Go get a +40 stam enchant on your bracers and an Essence of Gossamer and you will have more than enough HP to tank any Heroic and Naxx10, with Naxx25 coming up shortly thereafter.

    Cheers!

  7. #7
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    I admit, I too was a little worried about frost tanking due to the constant knee-capping with the nerf bat Blizz seems to aim at us. But currently, I do pretty darn well with 23k unbuffed HP pre-Frost Presence, and FINALLY upgraded to the rep gear from Wyrmrest (Gods, that's good stuff!). From what Ive heard (Can't cite sources since I forgot lol) Frost tanks are only losing about 1.5k health. I know for a fact I need better chants and MUCH better gear (Which is why I need chants. Too poor to waste the dough on lame stuff.) but with the front loaded insta-threat frost gives it's definitely the way to go, at least for heroics. Haven't made it to Naxx yet, let alone Ulduar. And when the patch finally drops, well.. I'm married IRL to the best healer in the guild. I'm not really worried anymore.
    ...Thoughts of a philosophical Death Knight...
    If death is the inevitable end of life, is life the inevitable end of undeath?

  8. #8
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    i wouldnt put any points in black ice, it only increases your frost and shadow damage by 10%, frost fever doin maybe K damage the 10% would be 100, so its a waste, your diseases are not your primary moves, you shouldnt count on them, death chill, howling blast and frost strike (atm) are frost dk's bread n butter

    you can either get Epidemic in uhonly, or Ravenous Dead, also in unholy

    ravenous dead will increase your str by 3% which means your AP will increase and that will make your howling blast hit for more

    improved frost presence in frost, and morbidity in unholy (if you are off tanking) should be looked at

    frost is awesome for burst threat (atm)


    edit: if youre goin to tank ulduar you might wanna go blood for its healing buffs, glyphed vampiric blood is nice in that tree, i'm leveling a pally and a druid atm i refuse to respec ;d
    Last edited by m1a2; 08-04-2009 at 04:25 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1a2 View Post
    i wouldnt put any points in black ice, it only increases your frost and shadow damage by 10%, frost fever doin maybe K damage the 10% would be 100, so its a waste, your diseases are not your primary moves, you shouldnt count on them, death chill, howling blast and frost strike (atm) are frost dk's bread n butter
    HB and FS are both frost attacks and are modified by black ice. For a frost build, black ice is a huge threat boost.

    you can either get Epidemic in uhonly, or Ravenous Dead, also in unholy

    ravenous dead will increase your str by 3% which means your AP will increase and that will make your howling blast hit for more
    In his frost build, none of those talents are better than black ice. The AP increase from ravenous dead is 60 AP at 1000 STR. Black ice is much better.

    Epidemic is unnecessary since he is using the HB glyph and a single disease rotation. For heroics, HB will be used every cooldown, so FF is refreshed every 8s.

  10. #10
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    Jul 2009
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    Since a thread in progress on the matter I figured I'd ask here. I'm not entirely new to DK tank originally in 3.1 i was 12/8/51 for AOE tanking here is my current armory link:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    This character is my alternate character(side project) while I'm not raiding with my main character I appreciate any idea's or advice I can get.

    The next link is a propsed Unholy build I am considering for AOE tanking, however I'm also looking to make my dual-spec into probably a solid single target Blood tanking build if anyone has suggestions on the build, my gear layout etc.
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

    Thank You,
    Loathme
    Last edited by Loathme; 08-05-2009 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Loathme View Post
    Since a thread in progress on the matter I figured I'd ask here. I'm not entirely new to DK tank originally in 3.1 i was 12/8/51 for AOE tanking here is my current armory link:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    This character is my alternate character(side project) while I'm not raiding with my main character I appreciate any idea's or advice I can get.

    The next link is a propsed Unholy build I am considering for AOE tanking, however I'm also looking to make my dual-spec into probably a solid single target Blood tanking build if anyone has suggestions on the build, my gear layout etc.
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

    Thank You,
    Loathme
    try using wandering plague if you want AOE tanking, trustme its amazing for that xD

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    The way I was looking at wandering plague as it is a good talent in the unholy tree, in my tank gear I do not find my crit sufficient to be using points there. I noticed my armory link is showing me in my dps gear seems to have trouble updating at the moment.

    Edit:
    Armory is updated showing my tanking gear now

    I decided to just start this out in a new thread to avoid confussion with the current topic, thank you for your imput
    Last edited by Loathme; 08-05-2009 at 01:48 PM.

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