Does "dodge soft cap" not refer to the expertise soft cap once dodge is removed from the table?
Not for everyone but I like the synergy they create.
@Satorri - Good stuff sir. Keep it coming.
As an addendum, I should note that parry rates vary from boss to boss, so on some encounters I believe the "parry cap" is much lower (it's used for boss tuning), but so far the mid-50s seems to be the actual cap.
Love where you're going with this. I appreciate too that you're up front about what this is and isn't; namely:
It is not a tool to show which tank is better and why
It is a tool to show how all of the tank classes combine dozens of tools to produce highly similar results
I wish you luck in properly factoring ardent defender (and will of the necropolis to a lesser degree) into your calculations. Basic theorycrafting will give it zero effect; in tunnel-vision TTL calculations it has such a massive impact as to declare the other tank classes largely useless. Obviously neither case is accurate.
Call me a blizzard fanboi, but I'm always confident that tanks are within a certain margin of balance to each other. This shows, to some degree, that the latest tweaks have been quite effective. There can certainly be scenarios where particular tools become more valuable (blood deathknights and oldschool sarth+3, for example), but the overall balance seems solid.
As I see it, it would have one of two effects: either
1) the pally is taking enough damage in a short period of time that he dies anyway (after the proc saves him), such that Ardent Defender's death-prevention proc is useless; or
2) the pally is taking just enough damage for the proc to occur once every 2 or more minutes.
In the first case, it is largely useless, since it would just heal the pally back up to 30%, and then he would die again. In such a case, cooldowns like Shield Wall would be largely superior. I guess one example of this would be anything comparable to Mimiron's Plasma Blast, where you take a very significant amount of damage over a short period of time, but it is in separate ticks, as opposed to one large attack.
In the second case, it is overwhelmingly good. Assume that a boss has a super powerful single attack that he uses just over every 2 minutes. (I know this is a tailor-made boss to demonstrate how OP Ardent Defender may possibly be, but bear with me.) In this situation, Ardent Defender would remove any need for outside cooldowns, regardless of how high the damage is. If the pally was hit for 200,000, in one single attack, this would save him entirely.
Yeah, Rime is right. I just showed exactly what he was talking about, hahahaha.
P.S. I can't wait for more of Satorri's theorycrafting to make its way into this topic; I really want to see the final products of total damage taken, chance to take 3+ hits in a row, relative values of cooldowns, and so on.
Thanks for keeping this bumped, I've actually been waiting for Rawr to get fixed up for more recent iterations so I can be confident I'm working from consistent numbers (Warrior avoidance/block isn't calculating right, so it's left me uncertain about other numbers).
Soon I will get back to this. =)
Ok, I'm back in business, sort of. The stats in the original post have been fixed and updated for 3.2. I had to do some computation of my own since Rawr wants to over-calculate armor for some reason (the paladin does not in fact have 39k armor raid buffed without procs or abilities...), but the new numbers should be currently accurate and these numbers will be used to continue.
The tanks have gotten upgrades, so I'm using their current gear to set the stage.
I'll emphasize this again, this is not intended to compare classes, nor critique the choices of the exemplar tanks. Suffice to say these tanks are all progressing in Uld25/ToC25, doing regular and hard modes, and are all successful tanks for their teams.
The point of this developing tool is to gauge just how much effect is actually being garnered from different contributions to survival, what the cumulative effect is, and to see how the variances in gearing style and class mechanics can still end up with a roughly equivalent effect in overall damage reduction.
This is also only meant to be an inspection of survival skills, threat will not be discussed here, except for the occasional reference to how threat methodology will affect survival CDs and availabilities.
I am going to be on vacation for the next week and a half or so, so this won't get stepped forward much from this weekend to the following, but hopefully after that I can get the ball rolling again!
I'm guessing the deathknight listed is probably blood (and most likely yourself ;-))
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers for a frostie, as the extra 2% mitigation and 3% miss chance given to frost tanks may change the numbers somewhat (in the favour of DK's) compared to the 3% stamina from blood.
Of course a talent tree comparison is complex, considering all cd's, abilities and self healing.
But I would imagine looking at the basic comparison of a tank which has 3% more avoidance and 2% more mitigation at a cost of 3% less stamina should lead to significantly higher DK survival figures in your 4 class comparison figure on your original post.
I find the comparisons in this thread really interesting, as I have both a DK and warrior who I raid tank with, and find myself comparing them frequently.
Keep up the good work
I think we have a few different DK's willing to help work on some of these things. I know my hat is in the right for DW tanking. Granted I got my Dual-Bladed Butcher last night, and yes im friggin pumped still! But I am back to good ole 2 hander tanking for the moment.
The Pwnstar Puddin, Now in a Fun Sized Goblin Shell.
Meloree, <Edge>, Garona
After reaching the soft cap gemming for expertise would be very unwise as the benefits are minimal compared to losing over 340 health per gem that you swap out of stamina.
In all honesty you're doing a fine job but as you're saying yourself it's fairly easy to tweak the numbers/gear choices and do the same maths I suppose you could update the gear choices before finishing your job as the results you're going to publish if you don't change these options are going to be outdated and thus obsolete. The formulas however and mathematical work are going to keep their value, but I think most people simply want to see actual and up-to-date results instead of old "debatable" gear choices.
At that point hit becomes quite a bit more valuable as a DK.
For a blood tank, hit effects Heart Strike, Death Strike, Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Rune Strike, Aoe abilities, Taunts, Death Grips...
Expertise only effects Heart Strike, Plague Strike, and Death Strike.
@Tom: remember that dk's have both spell-like abilities and melee attacks that both function off the same hit rating value on our character sheet. once we cap our melee specials, we still get the benefit of improving the accuracy of our spell-like abilities as well if we stack hit past 8%/26 expertise. further expertise, however, adds 0 benefit to our spells chance to hit.
And how would you get a 2 min cd on SW without Imp.Disc?