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Thread: I need to know: Is it me, or the healers?!

  1. #21
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    Feb 2009
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    I really dislike tanking H CoS because if you get overzealous dps, it's really easy to get flustered, and mess up positioning. More than once, I've found myself running around to grab mobs that ran off before I could get aggro on them, which sometimes results in at least a good couple of seconds where I had an elite beating on my back (which = huge damage spike). Could that have been the problem? With the tons of zombies, it's sometimes easy to miss that mob that somehow maneuvered itself behind you.

    Otherwise, I have a pally healer, and I've healed druids, DKs, warriors and pallies at different levels of gear. To be honest, I can't tell much of a difference in damage intake at the heroics level (I really see it when healing something like Emalon though. You can tell when your tank is undergeared.) If you really want to know if it's a problem with you or a healer, ask one of your guild healers to come with you and ask them if they feel that you're taking more damage compared to the other tanks with similar gear.

    You might also try out a frost tanking spec. You get more mitigation, and Unbreakable Armor is really nice for tanking heroics trash. Have that up, cycle it with IBF, and you shouldn't be getting any healer complaints.

  2. #22
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    yor

    Ok first of all your not def caped its not the healers its you i recoment some enchants for def so you can cap it its at 532 it needs to be at 540

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocacola432 View Post
    Ok first of all your not def caped its not the healers its you i recoment some enchants for def so you can cap it its at 532 it needs to be at 540
    You obviously also missed the Sigil of the Unfaltering Knight as well as the posts above yours which concern him replacing it and not having to rely on it. You should really read the post if you want to comment on it, especially in such a negative fashion.

  4. #24
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    actually for heroics he is capped. the 15 resilience from his shoulder enchant is proven that, if your tanking raids, you only need 537 def to be capped. since he is tanking just heroics (which def. cap for is 535) then he is safe from crits.
    -Jimmy

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  5. #25
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    In the same vein

    I hope the OP doesn't mind, but I had a very similar experience this morning, and I wanted to put up my scenario as well.

    I'll start with my Armory Profile. I am a 5 man Heroic Tank, and I have trouble with only a few bosses in the dungeons I have run: Elder Nadox at Old Kingdom and Hadronox in Azjol Nerub, if that will give any insight.

    This morning, I'm running Heroic Gundrak with a Dark Knight, two rogues and a Paladin as the healer. We went up against Slad'ran and the first time we wipe, we find out the paladin was not familiar with the area and was placed poorly, so the dark knight, who has a priest alt, gave the pally the best spot, which is behind me on a ramp near a door. The plan being that I have a better shot of grabbing the snake adds when they show up. The next three attempts we still wipe. Each time I was forced to use everything (potions, shield wall, sheild block) just to keep from dying in less than 45 seconds, before the adds could even be a factor. I checked my location, to make sure I wasn't out of range, but I wasn't

    The group response was to ask if I had my defense rating was high enough. I have run in PuGs pretty much since the beginning of the game, and I like to think that I do a good job of keeping my cool, but this really boiled me up. Even then I should have been able to last more than a minute.

    Is there any input that can help, or am I right in thinking that the healer paladin (which is their 2nd spec) just couldn't keep up with the heals?

  6. #26
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    From my experience, even with relatively decently geared Pally healers, they are not as effective in 5-mans as they are in raids. I wouldn't sweat it too much, Slad'ran is a pain in the butt for sure, especially with undergeared/unexperienced folk. Your gear is more than good enough for any heroic, I cannot comment on the spec because I do not play a warrior. If you were popping cooldowns and still dying in the first minute, I would say that is a healer issue.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2009
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    Was the group getting caught in poison nova? A lot of the times I notice people not running out of it, and it's such a huge amount of damage, it's very tough for a pally healer with no aoe heals to heal through it. That said, even without any skill/practice, the pally can spam holy lights on you for the first minute to cover any ridiculous amount of damage (my holy lights easily land for 10k each without crits). They might go oom (kind of unlikely but maybe they're geared inappropriately), but that you're dying at all in the first minute likely means they're healing somebody else and forgot beacon.

  8. #28
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    Jul 2009
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    First off, thanks for all the advice given here

    BUT lol, you all seem to think that I'm using the Sigil to get to Def cap. and I'm not, I use Elixir of Mighty Defense which is +45 to defense. That puts me at 542 defense and is an hour long buff. The reason I keep the Sigil is because the extra defense it adds increases my dodge and parry as well.

    I don't have a problem with holding aggro at all. Just that I'm dying in groups. With my food buffs, and the two elixirs (Guru's and Defense elixirs) and in Frost pressence my stats are:

    32116 HP / ~25,6XX armor / 542 Defense / 23% dodge / 16% parry that's without the sigil and without horn of winter as well. With the sigil and the horn included Hp stays the same, armor goes up to ~26,XXX / 553 Defense / 25.X% dodge / and 17.X% parry.

    With those stats, to me I shouldn't be dying unless the healers just aren't keeping me up. Mind you, that's just MY stats SOLO with food, elixirs and self buffs. In groups everything as we all know is increased

    So maybe putting everything in this post, does that change any of your alls opinions or advice. Wasn't sure if you were taking everything into account and I figured I'd post my "self buffed" stats since the armory doesn't show them.....

  9. #29
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    Whichever means you are using to get def cap besides just having enough def rating on your gear is really not a good practice. Suppose you forget to quaff a potion, or it wears off in the middle of a fight without you realizing it. It works, but its just a bad idea IMO.

    Besides that aspect, you are missing out on the flasking. Stoneblood flasks are equivalent to 130 stam...thats more than the Essence of Gossamer gives you before +% modifiers.

    The other reason why you always want to aim for the Def cap and not really stack defense beyond there is because of diminishing returns and the fact that Defense adds less dodge+parry per point of rating than pure +dodge, especially after 540. You're better off at 540 def, with +dodge/stam gems and a flask of stoneblood than at 555 defense with a Guardian elixir and defense elixir.

    Really though, your stats are fine. You have more than enough HP/armor/avoidance to tank any heroic. Chances are either the healers that are QQing are used to Ulduar geared tanks, or just don't know what they're talking about, or just aren't geared enough themselves.

    I know where youre coming from though. I have been in groups in the same day where one healer said "WOW great tanking, you made that look super easy and i barely had to heal you" and another group where a healer let me die 3 times in a row on TRASH and then QQ'd and left group, then proceeded to slander me via whispers til i ignored him, then in Trade chat, til I reported him, and then on an alt after that. Don't let idiots get you down, just keep at it and work on that gear and your own skills and you should be fine.

  10. #30
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    I agree with an earlier poster. Have one of your guild healers run with you and ask if you're really that hard to keep up. It seems that tanks usually blame the healer and vice versa in pugs, so your best input is going to come from someone who knows you and your playstyle fairly well. That's why I avoid pugs personally. It also saves on QQ sessions and headaches unless you find that lucky group.
    ...Thoughts of a philosophical Death Knight...
    If death is the inevitable end of life, is life the inevitable end of undeath?

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