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Thread: Re-Gemming

  1. #1
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    Re-Gemming

    I just recently replaced an item that puts me up to 547 Defense. I currently have (2) +16 Defense rating gems in a yellow slot on my chest piece. If I remove the 2 gems i will still be over my 540 cap.

    Stats:
    Warrior Tank
    30.5k HP unbuffed
    21 Expertise
    117 Hit Rating (Approx 3.57%)
    Armor 23822

    Note: I am going to enchant my new cloak with +225 Armor tonight


    I have tanked thru the first 5 bosses in Ulduar and sometimes have trouble holding Aggro when I face multiple targets. I currently eat the Food buff that gives me Expertise and Stamina bonuses. This raises my Expertise to the soft cap of 26.

    My question is what (2) gems should I use on my chest?
    I was thinking of going with +16 Hit Rating.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Sorry, forgot the Armory Link. Here it is!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Onyxia&n=Jvestal
    Last edited by Vestal; 07-27-2009 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Forgot My Armory Link

  2. #2
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    *Holds up Sign "Will critique for armory link!"*

  3. #3
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    Armory Link posts belong in the HALP forum. Please take a moment to re-read the posting rules.

    Moved.

    READ THIS: Posting & Chat Rules
    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
    http://i.imgur.com/3vbQi.gif

  4. #4
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    Thanks Kaze! *Cheer*

    -Go with 16 def to cloak instead. Regem with hit or hit/expertise. Socket bonus is worth it.
    -Go with 22 def to chest, swap out some defense or defence/stam gems for hit or hit/stam gems. 275 health doesn't scale, but stamina does.
    -For gear upgrades, ulduar gear generally has more hit, and nax gear has more expertise. If you gain too much expertise, you can go with 20 hit to gloves, and start eating hit food which is likely more common given that spell casters can use hit food too (especially if you pug priests for raz in nax). When you get ulduar upgrades hit will be less of a problem.

    Dont worry too much about being over def cap. Your shield is a huge source of defense, but its not an ideal shield. As soon as you upgrade it your def will drop sharply. Also, warriors and paladins benefit the most from over-defense-cap rating, it's more of a concern for DKs (and possibly druids in terms of wasted itemization).

  5. #5
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    Good advice from Insahnity.

    I also agree that as the equivalent enchants for cloaks and chests do not scale (+health instead of stam, etc) with bonuses from talents and the like, that Defense enchants are the way to go. This can help out especially in fights like Hodir where you may need just those few extra points in defense to keep capped with your FR gear on.

    Also, you may get that sweet tanking ring that doesnt have defense on it at all...maybe just exp/dodge/parry. At least this way you have a buffer so that you do not have to go re-gem right off the bat just to use your new piece.

    From looking at your armory, you are definitely lacking some hit rating for sure. Hit is your #1 priority, over Expertise, so I would replace that enchant on your gloves with the +20 hit rating if I were you.

    Think of the mechanic like this:

    You strike-> Game calculates whether you hit the mob with HIT RATING -> Game then calculates whether or not the mob parries/dodges your hit with EXPERTISE RATING

    If you don't HIT the mob first, you never have a chance for your expertise to do you any good, so think about that when you are itemizing your priorities.

    So all in all, if you swap out your enchants and those defense gems (as long as you can and still remain capped), you should notice a nice increase in your chance to hit and by extension your chance to proc your expertise as well as your TPS generation.

    Cheers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zivh View Post
    Think of the mechanic like this:

    You strike-> Game calculates whether you hit the mob with HIT RATING -> Game then calculates whether or not the mob parries/dodges your hit with EXPERTISE RATING

    If you don't HIT the mob first, you never have a chance for your expertise to do you any good, so think about that when you are itemizing your priorities.

    So all in all, if you swap out your enchants and those defense gems (as long as you can and still remain capped), you should notice a nice increase in your chance to hit and by extension your chance to proc your expertise as well as your TPS generation.

    Cheers.
    WoW uses a single roll system. You are suggesting that there is a roll for hit and then a roll for dodge/parry. That is not the case. Point for point Expertise is twice as effective as hit rating until you reach softcap. And equally effective after the expertise softcap.

    @ OP: insahnity gives good advice. You will get more bang for the buck with def enchants and gemming for hit/exp/stam
    Last edited by mattdeeze; 07-28-2009 at 02:21 AM.

  7. #7
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    Great Advice guys. I really appreciate the input.

    It was my understanding that the Expertise soft cap of 26 was more important than Hit Rating to avoid the dreaded Parry/Gib (I think that is what it is called) that speeds up a bosses attack. Is this true??

    As luck would have it ...An Uldaur neck dropped last night that has no Defense but a high Parry and Expertise (Fervor of the Protectorate). That puts me right back to the Defense cap of 540. I still think I am going to switch out some Enchants for defense and look at gemming for Expertise, Hit and Stamina. Once again, Great advise guys.

  8. #8
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    Parries are still on the table well after the dodge cap of 26. I would still give expertise a higher value because point for point it is as effective from a chance to hit perspective and also makes you less likely to take another quick attack from a boss (from being parried).

  9. #9
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    Just an Update.

    This has been great advice. I tanked 10 man Ulduar thru the first 6 bosses with almost no trouble. We even 1 shotted Thorim and 9 mrembers of our group had never downed him. The Defense enchants have really given me the gem flexibility to boost my expertise and Hit Rating to keep the threat up. I even had a comment from 1 of my guildies that I was holding great threat with my crappy gear. I have downed a total of 15 Ulduar bosses (example- FL 4 times) in the past 3 weeks and I have still not even seen a drop that I can use. The luck has to turn sooner or later.

    Thanks again guys. This has been a great help.

  10. #10
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    Vestal, if you are a tankadin, hit > expertise. This is because (until next patch) alot of my abilities are based purely on hit, and can't be dodged or parried because they are special holy (yellow) attacks. And really, I get bupkus for white hits threatwise.

    However, as a warrior tank, expertise is more important than hit. You get all your threat from physical attacks, and its easier to hit expertise soft cap (26 expertise skill) than to get to hit soft cap (263 hit rating). This is another way of stating Mattdeeze's point earlier.

    As for cloak scaling, if you want a stat that scales on a cloak, 22 agi is great with BoK, whereas titanweave will not change with BoK. So if you have oodles of defense, you could consider 22 agi to cloak, you still get a reasonable chunk of dodge with that, but that means you have to have really good gear where you get all your defense with no gems and little in the way of enchants.

    Therefore, do go for 26 expertise, the SOFT cap. This will mean that the boss cannot dodge attacks. If you hit the hard cap (43?), the boss will very likely not be able to parry your attacks, but this has 2 negative consequences
    1) You will drop alot of other stats (survivability stats, generally) to get to expertise hard cap, and go down like a cheap whore.
    2) If the boss parries, that's usually not such a bad thing, as parry-hasting works for us too. We can have our next attacks hasted when the boss parries our attacks. Sadly, we can't instagib bosses yet, but still....
    Last edited by Insahnity; 07-31-2009 at 02:16 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    2) If the boss parries, that's usually not such a bad thing, as parry-hasting works for us too. We can have our next attacks hasted when the boss parries our attacks. Sadly, we can't instagib bosses yet, but still....
    This is incorrect. If the attack you are attempting to make on the boss is parried by the boss, his next attack will be hasted, not yours. There is no "up side" to being parried.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    This is incorrect. If the attack you are attempting to make on the boss is parried by the boss, his next attack will be hasted, not yours. There is no "up side" to being parried.
    *facepalm*

    Yes that is correct. I was just in a thread where somebody had it bass-ackwards. I think it rubbed off on me. I feel so... soiled to the point of noobliness.

    Let's see, the correct story...

    Expertise beyond the soft cap still takes a lot of effort to get to. At the soft cap, I think it reduces the boss parry chance to about 5%-ish, which is better than the suspected base 10.5% chance with no expertise. And realistically, it becomes an uphill battle to get to expertise hard cap without dropping ulduar gear for nax gear.

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