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Thread: Holy paladin struggling to heal

  1. #1
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    Holy paladin struggling to heal

    Hi i have a holy paladin and the guild i am currently in is raiding ulduar25 and i am struggling to heal >.<

    i need some suggestions on better healing rotations and such ill post my armory and some world of logs on some of our fights.

    My armory
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    I'm not lacking gear i guess it may be the too many healers in the group issue and my slow timing?

    World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
    ^^^
    theres a World of logs from auriya

    World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

    ^^^
    A freya fight

    theres more but as you can see im awfully low on the meters i need suggestions please ? and we run with 6-8 healers btw

  2. #2
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    Not sure what you men by struggling to heal, if your assigned target doesn't die, you've done a good job. Your gear and spec are fine other than sub-par enchant on weapon and no belt buckle. It seems like you aren't predicting incoming damage as well as the other healers, this may be due to lag, or not paying attention to boss cast bars. Druids, Priests and Shamans will generally be ahead of us Paladins due to AoE and Smart heals, of which we have neither.

    Healing performance should never be judged by healing meters or compared o different classes, we aren't dps, we have specialised tools an a specific role. Wanting to improve yourself is alway admirable though, I'd suggest paying closer attention to when the boss casts a particular spell and winding up some big heals to deal with the approaching damage. Straying from your assignment is dangerous but will definitely pump you meters, only do this if you are sure your assignment is in no danger, or if another healer dies and you need to pick up some of the slack.

  3. #3
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    Your gear seems ok, although your crit's a bit low and your MP5s a bit high. although perhaps this is just down to spec. Also i personally dislike the forethought talisman but each to their own (the hot proc does 0.0% healing though ccording to your parses).

    Since your a holy pala there's no such thing as a healing rotation, you just spam the crap out your target. On Auriya for example you should just be completely spam casting holy lights for the first minute or so until all the cats are dead. Don't wait to see the tank take a hit, just spam the crap out of them.

    Also on both Freya and Auriya try and make efective use of your beacon. On Auriya i find a Paladin is probably the best person to save people who get pounced. On Freya you can jump on those that take add damage.

    I'm interested now to see what my healing on Auirya is like, i'll post a log of our next kill.

  4. #4
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    Looking at your healing group, you've got eight healers in the raid, three holy paladins and one disc priest. Bringing four "single target" healers is a little excessive and it's just going to turn into a contest of who can land the heals first. Honestly, and I know it's probably not what you want to hear, but your raid could drop a holy paladin (or two), pick up a dps (or two), and probably not notice a difference except faster kill times.

  5. #5
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    A couple of minor things about gear:

    You're missing an eternal belt buckle in your belt and a shoulder enchant for your shoulders, as well as a head enchant. That's about 50 spellpower and almost one whole percentage of crit that you're losing out on right there (assuming you go for the spellpower/crit enchants from Hodir and Kirin Tor).

    Talents and Glyphs:

    I won't fuss much about the spec, 51/20/0, but I would ask if it's *truly* necessary. I ask because if you all do typically overstack healers and such, you could probably get some personal benefit by doing a 51/0/20 or a 51/5/15 build and get some more crit that way.

    Also, for glyphs, I notice you have Seal of Light, Flash of Light, and Holy Light. Holy Light glyph is fine, but why Seal of Light and Flash of Light? Seal of Light I especially find kind of meh considering that paladins are like the masters of overheal already, adding 5% more to overheal is kind of meh. I'd personally switch that one out for the Seal of Wisdom glyph, which reduces the mana cost of your healing spells by 5%, and that Flash of Light glyph? I'd either go for the Holy Shock glyph or the Beacon of Light glyph, which reduces the cd from 6 secs to 5 secs and increases the duration from 60 secs to 90 secs respectively.

    Group makeup: Ok, at least one of those holy pallies didn't have to be there. During both fights posted, I noticed one paladin, Leonius, spending more time spamming FoL than HL. You know you have too many healers if a paladin can afford to sit there spamming FoL.

    Addons: You stated that one reason why you feel you weren't as effective healing is because of a low reaction time. Are you using any addons to help in healing? And by that I mean addons like Clique (can be used with Grid, doesn't have to be), or Healbot, or something similar? I have found that relying less on my keyboard and more on single clicking + select keybinds has done wonders for improving my reaction time.

    Finally, spells used: I do notice that you tended to use a lot of FoLs. I also notice a tendency to rarely use other healing spells such as Holy Shock or Sacred Shield-- why?

  6. #6
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    well im currently using healbot which i dont mind at all and i do notice im not using Sacred Shield enough and im trying to get in the habit but thanks for all the tips so far.

    the reason i dont go 51/0/20 or 51/5/15 is because my guild benefits from the use of divine sacrifice and aura mastery on bosses such as hodir with his Frozen Blows.

    Yes, i do believe we bring way to many healers and its a whack a mole contest but if i was to tell the guild that i more then likely wouldnt be raiding cause im the "baddy" on the charts

  7. #7
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    Are you really speccing 51/20/0 because the guild *actually* needs that, though, or because you can say that by you speccing for that, it ensures you a spot because, as you've said, otherwise you look like a baddie on the charts? I can't speak from 25 man experience so much as I can from 10 man experience, but from the fights that I've done (11/14 in Ulduar 10 man), while having that 30% damage absorption is nice, it's not been 100% necessary.

    Being more concerned about your position in the raid as a healer as opposed to what the guild needs isn't necessarily the way to go, though, and sometimes you have to try to help out the guild in other ways. I know that for myself, I personally have a ret set fully built up so that I will be able to dps during the hard modes. Now, admittedly, I've found out that ret isn't half bad, but I still prefer healing. However, sometimes helping the guild progress is more important than ensuring that you have a healing spot at the expense of bringing in too many healers.

  8. #8
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    Great information there. I am very new to Raiding so I was hoping I could ask some questions in more general terms about some of the information on the Logs.

    1. As was pointed out there are alot of healers including 4 single target healers. If this is your Raid group would it be worthwhile to ask one of the priests to off-spec to Shadow? (For Misery, Vamp Embrace and Vamp Touch)

    2. In the Freya fight a 02:42:57.530 Zeath killed himslef with Seal of Martyr. Does this happen alot?

    3. The group has 2 Destruction Lock's and an Arcane Mage. Would it be worth having the mage off-spec to Fire for Improved Scorch?

  9. #9
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    we now have a priest that has switched to shadow but still having 7-8 healers a raid night and yes i do have a ret set and it isnt too hot and i personally hate it.

    we also have a fire mage he just happened to not attend this raid :O

  10. #10
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    Well, here's the thing: part of the reason why you're not going to get any better is because there are too many healers. Typically I've found that more than 7 means that heals are going to be sniped and certain people are just going to be able to come out on top. There's only so much you're going to be able to do healing wise because there's only so much damage that happens.

    @ Gilitemara: Yeah, sometimes the ret pally can end up killing themselves with Seal of Martyr. Seal of the Martyr - Spell - World of Warcraft Same can happen with a shadow priest who uses Shadow Word: Death - Spell - World of Warcraft

  11. #11
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    we are useing 5-6 healers most fights our healers are 1 holy pally 1 disc priest 1 holy priest 1 shammy and 1 druid (we do have a boomy druid a ele shammy and a shadow priest that are ready to go healing at any time for diffrent fights)
    and its me or the disc priest on the bottom of the list most of the time (but fights like IC im top because i know when the tank is going to take a bunch of damage

    i also would talk to Georgepatton because he seems to know what hes doing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyday View Post
    i also would talk to Georgepatton because he seems to know what hes doing.
    Not necessarily a good idea. His priorities for what he has to heal could be totally different than what the OP is assigned to heal, for one. And for two, oftentimes just trying to imitate someone's healing style, instead of trying to make changes that are actually natural for you, usually leads to frustration.

  13. #13
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    k thanks guys i figured it was the too many healers problem but i doubt they would believe that we'll see what happens i guess

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyday View Post
    we are useing 5-6 healers most fights our healers are 1 holy pally 1 disc priest 1 holy priest 1 shammy and 1 druid (we do have a boomy druid a ele shammy and a shadow priest that are ready to go healing at any time for diffrent fights)
    and its me or the disc priest on the bottom of the list most of the time (but fights like IC im top because i know when the tank is going to take a bunch of damage

    i also would talk to Georgepatton because he seems to know what hes doing.
    That's because they are more about midigating the dmg instead of active healing. Which is why druids come out on top of the meters nearly all the time.

    People are too worried about who is at the top of the recount meter... But recount doesnt take it all into account, so it comes back to, take the player not the class.

    Back on subject though, I think that having a word with Patton from your guild though would be a good idea, he's healing really well. Talk to him about his rotation. I've also found out that as a resto shaman which is fairly similar in healing as a pally that you need to pre heal a lot, watch what is going on and be ready for it, that way when the dmg hits you already have your heal going. As well though, as many here have said 7-8 healers is really too much, 5-6 if fine with 3 aoe healers and 2 direct targets healers is what i'd go with.
    Last edited by Havick; 07-27-2009 at 10:31 AM.

  15. #15
    You have to ask yourself, am i healing Proactively or Reactively?
    Reactive healers see the tank get hit and then start casting.
    Proactive healers are always casting, but not always landing, their heals. The way this works. As soon as you finish casting your healing spell, start casting another one, REGARDLESS of the tanks health. When the spell if almost done you have two options.
    1) The tank took a hit and is not longer at full health-Let the heal finish, it will land and heal the tank.
    2) The tank did not take a hit and is still at 100%-Stop the cast. Move, jump, use /stopcasting
    If you do this properly, you'll outheal anyone that is healing reactively because your heals will land before they can cast. If you properly stop your casts that aren't necessary, your overhealing and wasted mana will be much lower.

  16. #16
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    People, STOP telling this paladin to talk to another paladin regarding how they heal. One person's healing style is not going to work for someone else if they do not have the same focus or if that healing style is not comfortable for them. All that causes is frustration because every heal that you throw out is situational and depends on the circumstances, your group, etc.

    I've seen far too many examples of people who try to copy another healer to the T and yet they still fail, because you can't explain to someone else when a heal is needed, or when a cooldown should be burned.. a lot of it us just up to that individual healer to get their own style and to get a flow going with healing their particular target(s).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by qygibo View Post
    People, STOP telling this paladin to talk to another paladin regarding how they heal.
    This is kind of an ironic statement considering he came to a healing thread asking for healing advice. Who would you suggest give him healing advice other than a healer?

  18. #18
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    The first thing I will say is by looking at your logs your raids have WAY TOO MANY healers. In one log you have 9 healers, in another you have 7. You only need a maximum of 6 healers. Second your gear is fine, HOWEVER with that said you are missing enchants and gems.

    A list of which:
    Helm enchant- 30 spell power and 20 crit.
    Shoulder Enchant - 24 spell power and 15 crit.
    Belt socket - get a BS socket from the AH and put in your belt so you can get more int for yourself or what not.

    Not getting all your gems and enchants can hurt your performance whatever it be by A LOT.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vine View Post
    This is kind of an ironic statement considering he came to a healing thread asking for healing advice. Who would you suggest give him healing advice other than a healer?
    Advice about things like gear, enchants, gems, possible spells they could be using, sure. Trying to copy down to the T exactly how another healer heals, trying to use exactly the spells they use at what seems to be the exact moments? Not so much. Each heal is situation and depends on the group makeup, what other healers are with you, who you're fighting, who you're assigned to heal, what your target(s) are doing or not doing, etc. Seen it more than once where a healer tried to imitate exactly what someone else was doing and they failed miserably at it, because the way one person healed was a method they had gained from experience, knowing the fights and the people they were with, and just having more of an intuitive sort of response, and that's not really something you can copy tit for tat.

  20. #20
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    No one suggested he copy the other paladins healing verbatim, not sure how it's even possible. Some of the best tips and techniques I've gotten have been from talking to skilled players and learning what they do in a given situation, which tools they use to overcome an obstacle.

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