hi,
i couldn't find a thread that discusses this and i wanted to get some opinions in regard to this
last night i was running the heroic daily and i usually like to set the loot rules before actually starting
the mage that joined could DE and i set the usual need if u need, greed to de and roll for shards at the end
the mage objected to this rule stating that if miners/skinners/herbalists got to keep whatever they got in the instance, why shouldnt he be able to keep the shards + crystal if no one rolled need.
my question is this : did the mage have a valid point or was he just being a butt?
btw : i said i didnt really like his attitude and that the group could find a replacement for me (i was playing my ele shammy at the time so not that hard to replace a dps) but he dropped group and hearthed then proceeded to whisper me with insults till i used /ignore
By the average pug rules, he was being an idiot. Passing on an item so an enchanter can DE it usually means you're doing it so you can roll on the shard at a later point. If he wanted to keep that attitude, you could have just told everyone to greed on everything.
Also, the difference between DE'ing and mining is: You can't get anything out of a saronite node without a miner, however you can vendor blues.
Last edited by Gravy; 07-13-2009 at 09:57 PM.
King of Cheese, Pope of Lemons, Warlord of Pancakes, Sultan of Omelletes, Czar of Zuchini, Kaiser of Pretzels, Archduke of Apples, Duke of Pimento-loaf, Prime-Minister of Meats, Count of Tomato, The Regent of Danish, Chieftan of Chutney, and Lord of the Dance.
I guess the differentiation comes in that skinning and mining produce materials which are used for more specific items and not everyone necessarily needs those mats whereas everyone can use / needs enchanting mats. There is also a differential in quality/quantity - while a skinner might have 20 or more beasts to skin throughout the instance, he'll get a bunch of scraps and a couple whole pieces, and maybe get lucky with a blue skin, and at the other end of the spectrum a miner may find 1, perhaps 2 mining nodes in an instance. There is a guaranteed shard for every boss drop if nobody needs the loot.
I guess this is a server to server thing, but I have never seen an enchanter say "I'm keeping everything I DE, PEACE" and if I had met one, I would have had the same reaction you did.
Originally Posted by Turelliax
The difference is easy: the skinner and miner get things from stuff that normally provides nothing. It gets left unused.
The precious item that your mage wants to disenchant: if no-one needs it, I'd like to greed it so I can sell it to a vendor.
We are too much used to common behavior when it comes to disenchanting. However as much as his act was rude - he have right to refuse to DE for others (if this is topic) but ofc blue items don't belong to him (if he expected to pick all blue stuff and de for himself)
If you don't have miner - node will be unused. If you have it - miner will earn money.
If you don't have herbalist - plant will be unused. If you have it - herbalist will earn money.
If you don't have enchanter - you will sell item to vendor. If you have enchanter you will earn 10g more per item dropped.
See the disparity?
In the guild runs, for pve progression, you always disenchant stuff because you know that will improve your guild/team. In pugs you realy have no reason to announce that you are enchanter, technically you have more chance to receive blue item if you greed on each drop then if you DE everything and roll after.
Let's look from economical point of view:
Enchanter is good @ economix and he knows that if instance drops 4 blues that's new 4 shards on the market, and if he only post his own shard then the price is much bigger since there is not big offer.
I go rarely with pugs but I allmost never offer disenchanting the stuff, I just greed on everything. However, if I'm asked to DE stuff I don't make dramas, since people cannot understand this and I don't want to stress about it. But even when I'm silent - then... there is happy little just dinged guy who say with a pride "Hey guys I can DE!!!" (so you can earn 10g more per boss because you have me in, so you wont kick me if I suck)
Last edited by Mookey; 07-14-2009 at 03:18 AM.
Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]
Yep mage was being daft and his logic was flawed. Everyone kills the boss so everyone gets a greed roll on the item if there are no needs. They can either vendor that item or if there is a kind enchanter he may de for them.
Normally the stuff just gets given to the enchanter to de and split out at the end to save time but that doesnt mean he is the only one who can keep them!
Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day.
On my pally I always offer to greed to disenchant items, shard them and hand them out at the end of the run.
Any enchanters that claim they get to keep all the shards are just being dicks, if it wasn't for the other 4 people in the group you wouldn't be getting the shards in the first place, therefore they all deserve a chance.
He was being a jackass. But at the end of the day, it's his right to offer to disenchant or not.
Too many people these days just assume if there's an enchanter in the group, they must disenchant. I think that attitude is being a jackass as well. Disenchanting is a courtesy, not an obligation.
These days when I run instances, if I want to disenchant, I'll say to roll on the shard when the epic at the last boss drops. If I'm feeling lazy, I just keep my mouth shut and greed. The mage whispering insults is being a moron.
I belive the mage felt like he was being cheated because his skill was providing something to the other group members and he was looseing out on potential earnings. I would of offered him to be paid an offset amount of gold from each member who won a roll to offset his loss and if he didn't like it drop him for being unreasonable. When you group your non-self made skills are for the group. No one expects free pots in an instance but everyone expects the healz to use all the spells necassary to avoid the wipe.
When i'm running a heroic (I am a enchanter) I will normally just greed along with everyone else and if I am lucky enough to win the roll i'll DE for myself.
In raids however depending on what the group consists of we will handle it in two different ways:
- If we have pug members then we will melt down what everyone doesn't need for main spec or off spec and roll at the end of the raid.
- If the shard is won by a guild member or it is a full guild run we will normally deposit it after the raid in the guild vault for use in enchants at a later point.
My opinion on the matter is if it is just a heroic instance there shouldn't be an expectation of a enchanter disenchanting for you, but I agree the way this mage seemed to expect to keep everything they disenchanted didn't work well, as others have said before unlike the gathering professions you wouldn't be able to profit in anyway from those things gathered. You would however always be able to just vendor the item.
(Also not letting someone be assigned to DE stuff in heroics stops that enchanter for ninja'ing everything at the end as an added bonus).
In heroics it wouldn't be unusual to get all blues de-ed and often also the epic at the end.
With current prices on my server: 3-4 blues: shard would be 15-20 gold. 1 epic, abyss crystal is 75 gold, the mage would be looking at an profit from 60 to 150 gold where the 150 gold wouldn't be that uncommon.
That is way way more then any miner or skinner would ever get from any heroic. This mage was being very very greedy.
We can pretty much finish the topic with this line. It summs it up pretty nicely.
Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]
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