Anyone spare some help for a poor DK tank?
So I'm a Frost DK, doing his best to tank in a world full of Tanks. It's not easy, but I try my best to be patient and help where and when I can. Mostly right now I'm doing OT stuff for 10-man Naxx and other things. However one thing has got me stopped cold (no pun intended) and I'm not a hundred percent sure what to do about it...
I get hit...pretty darn hard. I was asked to do an Old Kingdom run a few weeks ago and I was having serious problems staying alive, to the point where the group asked me to leave. Not fun, but eh. I understand the need for a solid tank.
This also happened during a 10-man Vault run. I can do Archavon fine, but OTing Emalon was just...ouch. If the MT is fast enough to peel Emalon off me, I can hold the four adds, but thus far I haven't been able to last beyond eliminating one of his four adds. This one fustrates me more than anything else since My guild shouldn't have to suffer for me just being a bad OT and not knowing it.
So I guess my question is: what's wrong here? what am I missing? Is it just a gear thing? or is it my specc? I'm thinking I just need some better gear, but at the same time I know gears and speccs aren't everything...
oh! an Armory link would probably be useful...
The World of Warcraft Armory
Any advice or help anyone has would be grealy appreciated!
Heres what i would do
Your gear is decent for the begining of tanking, you are currently where i was about 3 months ago.
You should focus on running any normal dungeon you need to get the gear, once you have progress to the heroics, start with the easier ones.
which means stay out of HoL, Occy, Gundrak, untill you have mastered the rest. Starting with Nexxus(easy to tank) and learning the fights and pulls is for lack of a better word imparitive both to you progressing and to really find out how to tank. As a frost tank you wont need to worry so much about snap aggro as you HB procs.
CoS(a little harder)
HoL(a little harder)
Get the addons you need to make your bars all key bindable for taunting.
Bartender will help with that. Get Omen, and AtlasLootEnhanced, recount, Keep track of your TPS(Threat/S) as well as others.
Read more forums about how to maximize your shot rotation and increasing your surviviablity.
Stack as much Sta/mittigation as you can, if you have 28k HP unbuffed any healer worth his/her weight in salt should be able to heal you thourgh those.
Most importantly, join a guild at around the same gear that you are and talk to other tanks Dks.
Get Argent Rep, and Sons Of hodir rep immeditaly!, if your not already, a BlackSmith and a JC drop your professions and pick them up and level them as fast as you can. BlackSmiths and socket items rings, helms, leggings waists, and a JC can make +41Sta gems, its the utmost thing you can do to ensure that you will progess into Ulduar as a DK, since blizz has fkd us dks yet again with the nerfing of several things, namly our HP we derive from forst presence.
Again talk with other DK tanks and ask them about it, read more forums about shot rotation to increase your Threat Per Second. Icy touch while running in, Plague strike, Pestilence, Howling Blast, Obliterate. Swap to a target with all the diseases on it, Pestilience him, Swap back to main target, Icy touch, Howiling Blast(HB), (bloodboil is also good for snap aggro like HB is)
I already have Exalted Sons of Hodir rep. and I'm at Revered with Argent Crusade right now (working on Exalted). my guild is pretty much overgeared for me, I'd imagine. But I've gotten invaluable help from my guild's top JCs, Blacksmiths, and Enchanters. However I do agree that more time in lower heroics would do me some good now that I think on it.
As far as moving to another guild, I'm not sure I wanna do that right now. My biggest concern with it is that there's not that many active DK tanks around on our guild, but there's alot of aspiring ones. They come to me for help and I help them as best I can despite my learning not being complete (not that a tank's ever is. Each new instance is something to learn.). I had to learn alot the hard way, but I'm not gonna leave them out in the cold. I'm willing to stumble along a bit and learn on my own if it means they don't have to do so.
But I'm definitely gonna look into getting myself better gemmed and running more heroics. There seems to be a general impression amongst alot of people I know that all one has to do is get better gear and they'll be fine. Somehow I doubt that's really the truth, hence this topic.
Thanks for the help!
The fact is, getting better gear is actually probably the best thing you can do. You will notice a huge difference in your tanking ability once you get a few epics.
Looking at your gear and build, your very similar to where i am atm
But i seem to be able to tank most things pretty well, i can easily run all the heroics. However, the healer in the group makes a huge difference, because DKs are more HP focused atm, i find a druid healer is the best approach in most heroics.
Also look into sorting out a decent rotation to keep threat and make the most of your talents
Yeah, I tend to run with a Druid healer and she always does pretty good in keeping me topped off. I've got a few Naxx-grade epics, but not nearly enough I'm sure. one of my conundrums however, is that I've looked on WoW-heroes, and as I understand it they rate your progression strictly on gear. Taking that into account, it would seem I'm getting close to being over-geared for 10-man Naxx. am I reading that wrong? or shouldn't I be relying on what it says too much? I'd still like to do 10-man Naxx for the experience regardless of gear, but I'm really tired of being half-carried through dungeons and being seen as a liability. (I feel bad enough doing it on alts. Hell, when I wanna do a dungeon on an alt I look for a group instead of a run. But that's a whole nother discussion.)
As far as rotation goes, I'm kinda at a loss. I usually have a couple ways of pulling and setting myself up, and both tend to do all right so long as the group listens when I explain that I need a few seconds to establish myself on the threat tables and grab a lead in DPS. I've been saying between 3 and 6 seconds for that. but I'm not sure if that's too long or not.
Actual rotations....I usually open with Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Corruption (if it's a situation with multiple targets), and a few Blood Boils and then a Death Strike or two if possible. (despite not being blood I like to make my healer's job easier whenever I can) I also throw down Death and Decay whenever applicable or, when there's multiple mobs or ample space, whenever it's ready to go.
Of course the other method is simply DnD and then sorta rinse and repeat the first few steps of the process. Obliterate when and where needed to finish off with gusto. I try not to have a strictly-set rotation since each pull is unique no matter how many times you've done it, but those are the habitual rotations I've fallen into.
Also, should I be trying to shoot for tiered gear at this point? I know I could run my butt off in dungeons and get a few pieces tier 7 I think it is. But is that really worth it? or should I just be biding my time with dropped gear until I can get to Ulduar and then start looking for tiered stuff?
OT'ing emalon and gem
the gem you are using on your helm has shield block, you do not need this as a DK and should replace it for the increase armour value from items, also I believe that tanking the adds on Emalon is the harder job and the better geared tank should tank them.
GL with the tanking
The World of Warcraft Armory
feel free to compare with some of my gear, although mine is still in the making im frost tank, allthough it says im unholy and makes my spec look wrong ^^
Last edited by Darthknight; 07-11-2009 at 06:14 PM.
Yeah, the shield Block gem thing is one of the things on a list of minor stuff I wanna fix, but they're not super-pressing. Pretty sure I bought that one off the AH since we do have an excellent and very generous JC and I didn't want her to just give me complete handouts. I try to fend for myself as much as I can. I don't mind shouldering most people's burdens (hence why I'm tanking), but I don't like burdening myself on others like that. I like to pull my weight best I can. Rest assured it's on my to-fix list.
I've gotten some conflicting messages in terms of speccs, though...I know there's Anticipation in the Unholy Tree, and Toughness in the Frost Tree, but is there anything else I should be having in Unholy or Blood that I don't have now? last time I respecced (after my second failed Emalon run) I looked through and took a good while to try and see what I really needed as opposed to what I could get after still getting all the frost talents I needed. Didn't see anything in particular except what I got. Anyone think differently?
Also you may just wanna look over your talents, find the ones you have no use for (nerves of cold steel) and find something you can put it on where you'll actually benefit.
I'd suggest taking the points off nerves of cold steel as DW tanking isnt that great, and take the point from deathchill (both in frost tree)
Possibly put them on killing machine, i know alot of people say dont, but i find the critical hits of howling blast is great for keeping aggro of more than one target, furthermore, you may also want to put a couple of points in bladed armour (blood).
One thing to note about your gear, try and get a new weapon, if your doing well with money but the titansteel destroyer, if not do the argent tournament dailies to get claymore of the prophet. As a DK tank you get parry from your strenght, so one of them weapons that has more stam and strength will increase your hp and parry rating.
Replace the gem on your legs, you dont need the extra +8 defence rating, as your HP isnt the highest put a stam gem in there.
hm...I'll have to look over that, but last I checked wasn't something coming up to make dual weilding more viable for DK tanking? Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer getting a shield talent or something over getting some kind of improvement for DW, but still. Given upcoming events do you think that's gonna be a neccessity?
as far as that 8 defense gem goes, thinking about it, I'd say you're probably right. My new cloak's not enchanted, so I can probably get that done with Titanweave I think, and that'll make up for that loss of the 8. Call me weird but I like to have that bit of a buffer for Defense Cap outside of the effect of the Sigil.
Frost DK tanking
By all means stack the defense as high as you want, and it is nice to have a bit extra in case you need to change to gear that will drop a little, But in my opinion i feel you need a bit more stamina. Although with a new wep that will increase it a bit.
And on the subject of DW, im not too sure, but 3.2 is a while off yet, so untill then its worth dropping that talent.
good point. For the most part I think I'll be fine swapping that defense gem. The stamina is indeed more important, and as long as you're at 540, building it up any higher isn't really worth it. Anything that makes me dip under I'll just save until I can get something to help make up for the dip.