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Thread: Shield Slam on Diminishing Returns

  1. #1
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    Shield Slam on Diminishing Returns

    They've reverted the nerf, sort of. Shield Block is back to it's old function, but now:
    Quote Originally Posted by 3.2 PTR Notes
    [blizzard]The benefit from additional block value this ability gains is now subject to diminishing returns. Diminishing returns occur once block value exceeds 30 times the player’s level and caps the maximum damage benefit from shield block value at 34.5 times the player’s level.[/blizzard]
    This goes for both Warriors and Paladins, on Shield Slam and Shield of Righteousness. This essentially reverts our Shield Slam damage. Most PVE Warriors who are planning their gear in a smart way will not reach the cap as we're generally avoiding SBV like the plague. However, even a couple pieces of SBV gear means we're likely going to hit the diminishing returns when Shield Block is up. This makes Block Value a less desirable stat despite trying to buff the stat in 3.2, and simultaneously says 'your spec should not be competitive in PVP.'

    Why did SBV get doubled?

    Lore will cover how this affects Paladins.

  2. #2
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    Huh.

    I'm almost glad I don't play these days.
    風林火山陰雷

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    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain - it's time to roll the dice

  3. #3
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    I am not amused.

  4. #4
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    Playing with my emotions Blizzard...

  5. #5
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    Even not gearing for SBV as a warrior you will get close to DR when raid buffed and having popped Shield Block, and this is at current (Ulduar)gear levels.

    This "fix" to the band aid problem of doubled SBV on pieces is as bad as the previous Shield Block increased innate threat debacle. Feels like teh developers are floundering for a solution to the band aid fix, when all they have to do is remove the band aid.

  6. #6
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    Um.....why? And why would they double BV from gear in the first place then? This whole thing boggles me infinitely.
    Told you so.

  7. #7
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    Heh. Well, this is better than Shield Block change, since it will affect us only in soloing/pvp and not in the real tanking. I am happy now that I didn't use my dkp on block gear in Ulduar, even if I was somewhat regreting it recently, thinking how much fun I could have with stacked Shield Slams.

  8. #8
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    Depending on the amount of SBV on otherwise useful pieces of gear, we may easily approach / hit the DR cap with shield block popped. That would seem to have a non-negligible impact on our burst threat.

  9. #9
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    It's not just SBV either...as ilvl goes up you'll get more strength. If you end up with a piece or two with SBV on it you'll be getting really close just based on having tanking gear on and having Shield Block up. 2400 block isn't really even that much. I definitely had a 4200+ block earlier on Emalon and my gear is nothing to write home about (obviously I had Shield Block up and was certainly critically blocking).

    Meh.

    Why do they feel the need to nerf prot's gimmicky, never actually works pvp thing and mess up the REAL POINT of speccing prot?

    I have a pvp spec...it has exactly zero points in protection.

    Sometimes (like when I was grinding warsong faction) I'll play pvp as prot, but that's always for a specific reason (carrying flags, tanking vann+adds, etc), it's certainly got nothing to do with arena.

    Bah...I like my shaman anyway, and he's getting buffed.

  10. #10
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    It's tough, because they're having to juggle a defensive number that is also an offensive number, with an ability that gives it a biiiiiig multiplier. (You talk about unforeseen problems with stacking percentage multipliers at unanticipated high levels of itemization...)

    They want to make most people's block value bigger, enhancing the defensive value of shield block value and making block a better defensive option. (yay!) But at the same time, they have to be careful; since there's a high degree of correlation between "block value goes up, amount blocked goes up" and "block value goes up, Shield Slam goes up", moving block value up to make block significant against mobs dropping 20k hits means that you're giving warriors one hell of an ouchy-ouchy, ESPECIALLY with a baseline ability that gives you a 100% bonus.

    But they don't want to nerf that ability, because that would make it worse for the defensive purposes it was originally designed for.

    This miiiiight be a good compromise. SBV still means your shield slam ouchy goes up. But with this nerf, they don't have to worry about that insane 100% scaling factor; they can make you block for an extra 1000 without having to worry about Arena Prot Warrior going in there and dropping an extra 4k on crits with Shield Slam.

  11. #11
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    Oh, I see, it's so that SBV will be used for mitigation instead of threat. BTW, I can't find the edit button for my post o_O.

  12. #12
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    Just curious. Is there any other damage dealing ability on diminishing returns, or are warriors just that special?

  13. #13
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    we're that special!

  14. #14
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    i already hit the cap in current gear and i don't stack sbv gear yay for threat AND damage nerfs ><

  15. #15
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    Two easy solutions to their issues:

    Shield slam can't crit. - or - Shield Slam damage is based on player Strength.

    Actually both of those would be nice. If SS damage was strength based SBV becomes a purely defensive stat accept for its roll in damage shield (which seems fine, I hate rogues). If SS didn't crit you could make it scale very well with Str so it consistently hit hard, but never in a game breaking manner.

    If say you average Ulduar tank SS'd for say, 7k every time, it would be a nice threat boost and dmg boost, but not nearly so outrageous in strange PvP scenarios but still potent for the PvProt warrior. Especially if we see some more dmg for threat swapping on skill like Devastate.
    "A man can learn twice as much from milking a cat as two men can from a very tall fourth man.
    - Mark "Alec Baldwin" Twain

  16. #16
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    These last three or four warrior changes are generating an extreme number of "wtfs" ..... They're all kinda contradictory and half-assed. These changes really don't show any sort of thinking/planning in the short term, let alone the long term. Better buckle in and hold on, it is gonna be an interesting ride.
    Former healbot now a Disgruntled protection warrior.

  17. #17
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    As I wrote in the other thread:

    With my current gear in Ulduar I hold Raid buffed:
    - 1500 BV as a base-state
    - 2650 BV with Shield Block up

    With the block value buffs suggested in 3.2 I'd have Raid Buffed:
    - 1710 BV as a base-state

    I'm not sure where I'd be with Shield Block up but at least in the 2800+ range. I'm already at the limit, with T8.5 gear. This is excluding buffs such as Glyph of Blocking.

    I don't understand how Blizzard is thinking here. We reach our hit and expertise cap at T7-level virtually and now they remove our ability to scale with block value? Forget the mitigation part of it, DPS and threat is a cap here which is beyond my reasoning.

    I think I'd choose the double threat over this given it's sort of like choose the plague or some form of cancer…

    Regards
    Roarc

  18. #18
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    It is the PTR. As the poster above stated, buckle Up! I forsee them just continuing to throw things out until they work.
    "A man can learn twice as much from milking a cat as two men can from a very tall fourth man.
    - Mark "Alec Baldwin" Twain

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikak View Post
    Two easy solutions to their issues:

    Shield slam can't crit. - or - Shield Slam damage is based on player Strength.
    Or just lower the % of block value used in the Shield Slam damage formula. Block value doubles, lower SS damage from block to 50%-60% instead of 100%.

    I'd still wait to see the final patch notes as anything Blizzard is doing with block right now is "temporary" as they continue to suggest a big block revamp is upcoming. Then again, it seems like the revamp is as much around the corner as the heroic strike revamp is. Shamans and paladins get huge changes and a couple of numbers change on Warriors... I just hope these patch changes aren't the block revamp they speak of.

  20. #20
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    This is why "fixing something that isn't broken" is inherently dangerous.

    I don't want to QQ, but... I'm finding this to be "un-fun" and counterintuitive.

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