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Thread: Shield Block Nerf - My Explination

  1. #1
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    Shield Block Nerf - My Explination

    Going to preface this by saying that I am 90% sure this change will get reverted/modified. It goes against their "keep skills simple" philosophy and the direction that all tanking classes are taking with WotLK.

    First I want to address how this might be a threat buff and then move on to why this was a "definitely coming" pvp/dps nerf
    As I understand the wording:

    Source: 3.2 PTR
    Shield Block: Shield Slam no longer benefits from the increased block value granted by this ability. However, while Shield Block is active, Shield Slam generates 100% additional threat.
    I think everyone is forgetting the fact that they plan on increasing gear BV contribution by 100%. This would mean that discounting your BV from Str (Xav's Str = 1200ish = 600BV in top end gear), the rest of your BV would double! I'm expecting a 600-800BV increase in my outdated gear. Those of you who actually still raid will be looking at a boost of 1000BV. It will most likely be more depending on how they implement BV change in relation to talents in 3.2. Based on the wording only shield slam is affected by the change which means a 100% buff to damage shield threat (w/o changing its dmg) AND a further multiplier from the across-the-board BV buff for the duration of shield block.

    ...

    Now on to shield slam:

    Shield Slam:::::::Rank 8
    20 Rage:::::::::::Melee Range
    Instant:::::::::::6 sec cooldown
    Requires Shields
    Slam the target with your shield, causing 990 to 1040 damage, modified by your shield block value, and dispels 1 magic effect on the target. Also causes a high amount of threat.
    Shield slam itself has innate damage that was not previously modified by shield block. Rather shield block only modified the (albet bigger) block value component of damage of shield slam. With the new shield block, you can potentially gain more threat based on how much BV you are wearing while tanking.

    -----------------------Example---------------------------
    *I'm excluding the BV gear buff for simplicity here

    Your walking around in 3.1 dalaran and you shield slam a critter with old shield block on and you have 2000 BV on you:
    (1000 + 2000*2)*(2.07) ~= 10350 threat

    Your walking around in 3.2 dalaran and you shield slam a critter with new shield block on and you have 2000 BV on you:
    (1000 + 2000)*2*(2.07) ~= 12420 threat
    -----------------------Example---------------------------

    BUT like everyone else has been pointing out you lose on damage with the new 3.2 shield block. BUT HEY! They buffed BV on gear so your toting around much more BV than before and its 100% of the time vs just the uptime of shield block.

    I have a suspicion... the actual cutoff point of total BV needed to make this a nerf would be right at the average BV you had with shield block being used every CD. So this wasn't actually a nerf but a correction to keep warriors in line due to the new BV gear buff. Although I personally feel they should stay away from innate threat and found a better way to balance things, it would seem some change was necessary as we will be doing ridiculous damage in pvp with full block gear once the BV gear buff goes through. This is also a slight buff to aoe threat with damage shield, but I'm betting that the shield block change will be reverted to some degree because ... come on... innate threat was so yesterday



    PS. even if I included the BV gear buff in the example it would still end up the same:

    -----------------------Example---------------------------
    *Now with the BV buff (I'll even overdo it and not consider str BV)

    Your walking around in 3.1 dalaran and you shield slam a critter with old shield block on and you have 2000 BV on you:
    (1000 + 4000*2)*(2.07) ~= 18630 threat

    Your walking around in 3.2 dalaran and you shield slam a critter with new shield block on and you have 2000 BV on you:
    (1000 + 4000)*2*(2.07) ~= 20700 threat
    -----------------------Example---------------------------

    But something doesn't seem right :\ can someone with better maths help me out? I keep having a suspicion I've left stuff out >_<
    Last edited by muulan; 07-08-2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason: spelling!

  2. #2
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    Muulan I think you misunderstand the shield block value buff.

    It only doubles the amount of SBV on gear, explicitly excluding shields. So that T8 Chest with 77 shield block doubles to 144 (yay) but for most of us thats the buff we will see.

    If we equip 10-12 Shield block Value items we would see the buff you are talking about but folks have run the numbers and it's still suicide to wear that gear tanking a boss.

    I believe that this is primarily a way to keep Shield Block from making a PVP Shield Block set too good.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by loquatious View Post
    Muulan I think you misunderstand the shield block value buff.

    It only doubles the amount of SBV on gear, explicitly excluding shields. So that T8 Chest with 77 shield block doubles to 144 (yay) but for most of us thats the buff we will see.

    If we equip 10-12 Shield block Value items we would see the buff you are talking about but folks have run the numbers and it's still suicide to wear that gear tanking a boss.

    I believe that this is primarily a way to keep Shield Block from making a PVP Shield Block set too good.
    Aye. On the PTR in full 226/232 gear my block value went from ~1500 to ~1900, a whopping 400 increase. The change is meant to nerf prot warriors who stack block gear and end up with something like 30% black rating and 2500 block value. After trinkets you could get shield slam crits up to 10k and higher.

  4. #4
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    Well you are wearing some SBV gear

    Conqueror's chest 77 SBV
    Signet of the Earthshaper 51 sbv
    Conqueror's leggings 89 sbv
    Greaves of the Stonewarder 68 sbv

    But I would think it should only increase by 285 - not sure where the other 120 comes from.

    But other than the chest, most tanks would replace the items with gear that's got better stam or avoidance.

    for example the Saronite legplates for the t8, the leviathan's coil for Signet, spiked deathdealers for the boots.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by loquatious View Post
    But I would think it should only increase by 285 - not sure where the other 120 comes from.
    Shield Mastery - Spell - World of Warcraft
    That bumps it to 370 block value, and I guess Glyph of Blocking would be the rest. /shrug

  6. #6
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    But something doesn't seem right :\ can someone with better maths help me out? I keep having a suspicion I've left stuff out >_<
    Sure:

    Quote Originally Posted by muulan View Post
    so your toting around much more BV than before
    This is false.

  7. #7
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    So my current 11-12K crits and in 3.2 at 17-18k are now going to be 8-9?

    Leave it the way it was!

  8. #8
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    I personally hate this change, with the new buff to shield block items, I will get an increase of 250ish BV. I cannot see the balance between this increase and the nerf hitting shield block.

    I am a dual prot speced too and this is the style i like playing. I have no alts and never cared to set one up.

    Yes i been playing only this char since the very start.

    Shield block was my only way to control some spike damage when i soloed/quested/pvped.

    Edit:

    my normal SS crits with SB up usually were 8kish. Thats with the VH shield block trinket active too.

    I hate this change and we need to keep posting i the official forums to try get it changed back. Unfortunately I cannot post in the us forums :/
    Created on the 25th April 2005.
    Protection Warrior since the old days of UBRS.

  9. #9
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    I would say most 25-man Ulduar MT's are not wearing much Block Value gear. It's just inferior, and most of it will still be inferior with the BV buff, IMO.

    Right now I am wearing ONE piece of gear with Block Value on it that will be affected by this change, the T8.5 chest. I will gain a whopping 100 Block Value. Meanwhile, my shield slams for 25% Shield Block uptime will do much much less damage. It will be a sizable nerf to my dps.

    The problem is that even with the Block Value buff, there currently are no best in slot tanking pieces with Block Value on them except for the T8 chest, IMO. Part of the reason for that is because half of the Block Value pieces also have Block Rating on them, a near worthless stat.

    Either way, this is not going to even out because of the Block Value on gear buff. It's just not.

    They gave us a Block Value buff. And then somehow they failed to realize beforehand that it would cause PvP Prot warriors to be able to go nuts in full Block sets. So they nerfed the damage to compensate, effectively nerfing warrior tank dps in the process. Which was already low compared to the other tanks!

    It would have been better if they would have just left it alone entirely. It makes no f---ing sense.

  10. #10
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    oh didn't know the BV buff was not applied to innate BV on shields. But the reasoning remains since even a minor increase in BV would make the BV-PvP-crowd even more OP. A change had to happen but I am disappointed as you guys with how they implemented it.

  11. #11
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    I believe that this is primarily a way to keep Shield Block from making a PVP Shield Block set too good.
    God forbid a Prot Warrior can PvP!
    /spit at Blizzard, damn joykillers.

  12. #12
    So to summarize this brilliant "Explination"

    Quote Originally Posted by muulan View Post
    I am 90% sure this change will get reverted/modified.
    come on... innate threat was so yesterday
    can someone with better maths help me out? I keep having a suspicion I've left stuff out >_<
    That's all I saw. These forums used to contain good, useful information. Now I have to wade through the drivel to find anything useful.
    "Ultimately, making the blanket statement '25m content is harder, period' is at best an overstatement and at worst ignorant drivel." Garrek

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