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Thread: Libram of Obstruction

  1. #1
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    Libram of Obstruction

    First off, I'm not sure if this is the right forum--this might be better suited to the HALP forum, but I felt this was most likely the correct one.

    Last night I was talking with another paladin tank on my server--one I have some general degree of respect for.

    He said that he felt that the 969 rotation was bull, and while he has 1/2 improved judgments at the moment, he was considering going 2/2 for more Obstruction uptime.

    I myself was confused, the beauty of the 969 is that it gives you one of your five moves for every GCD and through that you keep your hardest hitters going on every cooldown with 100% holy shield uptime.

    I did ask him what kind of rotation he suggested--but was very vague--something along the lines of, 'The same but you judge more'. :S

    Does anyone have any idea of what he could be rolling with more specifically, if he has a lead or idea, or if he's just full of it?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    All you accomplish by going 2/2 Judgement is having more CD conflicts where two abilities come off cooldown at the same time. It's been shown (see Maintankadin's FAQ in the Basic Training forum) that 969 is superior TPS to any other rotation.

  3. #3
    Also, with the current change to LoO in the upcoming patch, it negates their arguement further, as it will have a 100% uptime. Even pre patch, the LoO benefits 2 out of 3 Shield's anyways.

    Likely, he is just doing some form of FCFS (First Come First Serve) rotation, similar to how Ret plays, in that they just mash the buttons as they come off of cooldown. This type of play style would be benefited from a 2/2 Improved Judgments.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selyndia View Post
    Also, with the current change to LoO in the upcoming patch, it negates their arguement further, as it will have a 100% uptime. Even pre patch, the LoO benefits 2 out of 3 Shield's anyways.
    I don't recall LoO being on patch notes but I tend to skim read things and I have trouble finding patch notes--could I get a cliffnotes version?

    Likely, he is just doing some form of FCFS (First Come First Serve) rotation, similar to how Ret plays, in that they just mash the buttons as they come off of cooldown. This type of play style would be benefited from a 2/2 Improved Judgments.
    That's kind of what I guessed. I actually used that until a few months ago, the problem I found with it was relative inconsistency. It didnt really seem to mesh well to me like it does with ret.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrath View Post
    I don't recall LoO being on patch notes but I tend to skim read things and I have trouble finding patch notes--could I get a cliffnotes version?
    Instead of having it's block value doubled, it's having it duration doubled.

    Libram of Obstruction
    Binds when picked upRelic Libram
    Classes: Paladin
    Requires Level 80
    Equip: Your Judgement ability also increases your shield block value by 352 for 5 sec.

    Becomes

    Libram of Obstruction
    Binds when picked upRelic Libram
    Classes: Paladin
    Requires Level 80
    Equip: Your Judgement ability also increases your shield block value by 352 for 10 sec.

    And since you Judge every 9 seconds....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Honorshammer View Post
    All you accomplish by going 2/2 Judgement is having more CD conflicts where two abilities come off cooldown at the same time.
    That's actually a pretty generous, and still slightly inaccurate, description of what you "gain" with 2/2 Improved Judgements. The only way to gain anything from 2/2 Imp Judgements is by doing something wrong.

    What most of the "969 is a lie" crowd just don't realize about the 969 rotation, and specifically the 9-second intervals, is that you don't really have a choice. You're not going to be able to cast Judgement or Consecration every 8 seconds. It's simply not possible, not without, at best, dropping another ability from your rotation entirely and wasting half a second anyway.

    Global cooldown is 1.5 seconds. That means, if you're using all your GCD's, you're only able to use an ability every 1.5 seconds. So, you'll be using abilities at 0, 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, and 9 seconds. At the 8-second mark, you've still got one second on your GCD. In order to be able to use something at the 8-second mark, you need to wait half a second after your GCD comes up at the 7.5 second mark. That means you're dropping (or delaying) either HotR or ShoR from your rotation. To keep both Consecration and Judgement on an 8-second cooldown, you have to drop or delay both. Waiting an extra 2 seconds on ShoR in order to gain an extra 1 second on Judgement is plainly and simply not worth it.

    In short: if you gain anything from 2/2 imp Judgement, you're doing something wrong.
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  7. #7
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    EDIT:@Honor, btw

    ffffffuuuu-- Well that's awesome.

    LoSS is getting its value doubled, right? I think I remember seeing that--it'll have to be or else no one will pick it up.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Selyndia View Post
    Likely, he is just doing some form of FCFS (First Come First Serve) rotation, similar to how Ret plays, in that they just mash the buttons as they come off of cooldown. This type of play style would be benefited from a 2/2 Improved Judgments.
    No, it wouldn't.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    No, it wouldn't.
    It might feel like it would while playing it though.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrath View Post
    EDIT:@Honor, btw

    ffffffuuuu-- Well that's awesome.

    LoSS is getting its value doubled, right? I think I remember seeing that--it'll have to be or else no one will pick it up.
    Last I check on the PTR, LoSS was unchanged.

  11. #11
    Edit.

    Misread!

    While I understand that 96969 is better, thats the only situation I can find a 2/2 Judgment being beneficial for Protection, when omiting other moves and hoping to sneak in additional abilities (Besides hoping to use 2/2 for Snap agro on packs of mobs).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honorshammer View Post
    Last I check on the PTR, LoSS was unchanged.
    Well that's ridiculous--the current basis for using LoSS is that while you loose a slight amount of block value, you gain 100% uptime on it to allow your mitigation to be mildly more reliable.

    If both are now 100% uptime, LoSS will just be a weaker, more difficult to obtain version of LoO, and really more of a candidate for sharding.

  13. #13
    LoSS is better for Flame Leviathan vehicle stats!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selyndia View Post
    LoSS is better for Flame Leviathan vehicle stats!
    dohoho

    but why not just use the holy/ret equivalents which I assume are both actually useful for their respectful specs and therefore worth at least grabbing if you offspec holy/ret? (I do both)

  15. #15
    I actually am not sure on which are better. I don't play Holy enough to know their Librams; and I would be curious on the math difference between the 213 Libram that buffs Crusader Strike damage and the 226 that ups Divine Storm, especially with more frequent Crusader Strikes in 3.2 with the lower cool down.

  16. #16
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    Hmm, well my spec has 2/2 imp judges and i seem to have a neat roation only thing is i end up waiting one GCD for my judge to come back so i usually throw in a exorcism to keep it rolling, but i usually concencrate, holy shield, shield slam(i know its not called this its just easier to spell lol), hammer, and then judgement but on the second time around judgement isnt up yet it still has one second so i find the 2/2imp judgement is really nice and holyshield is up 100% of the time i would have to agree with that paladin, and now that LoO is gonna be 10 seconds! holy moly permanent 352 block value!

  17. #17
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    It's been my experience that some of the time, for no reason I can discern, I gain an extra GCD spot between one of my 969 rotations. Maybe his paladin buddy is seeing this, too, and thinking he can get 2/2 imp judgements to take advantage of it?

  18. #18
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    If that is the case, then he should be putting Avenger's Shield (or exorcism pre 3.2).

    However, if you are getting a free GCD, then that means you aren't hitting abilities fast enough (could have to do with your latency).

  19. #19
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    I just wanted to point out that things like heroism and I think one of the shammy totems reduces the GCD on concecrate and exorcism because they are spells. This may be what is confusing some of the people when they are using the 969 rotation and it doesn't seem to be working out as perfect as it should. Although I ussually don't notice the reduced GCD unless I happen to be playing ret at the time.

  20. #20
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    While heroism does affect the GCD, down as low as a second, the cooldowns of your abilities remain unchanged. Honestly, if you're finding extra GCDS to do other things in a 969 rotation, you screwed it up at some point, and I do it too. However, just because you're apt to mess it up here and there, doesn't mean you should stop trying for a perfect 969, it is the best rotation a prot pally can use.

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