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Thread: Proposed Vigilance Change (rage mechanics)

  1. #1
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    Proposed Vigilance Change (rage mechanics)

    With all the buzz of-late about the mechanics surrounding warrior rage, specifically with respect to situations in which the warrior is not getting hit, I would like to propose an added effect to vigilance.

    Since warriors themselves have problems generating rage, how might a buff to vigilance play out if the vigilance caused the warrior to generate rage based on the damage his vigilance target does?

    This would theoretically fix the warrior rage problem in situations where they are not being targeted by the mobs, would keep warrior rage-gen consistent with the level of content they are running vs their gear, and wouldn't have any effect whatsoever on the rage generation of DPS warriors.

    I will admit that I haven't completely thought out all angles of this proposed change, but I would like to hear some feedback from the community. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    The problem with vigilance is that the threat one gets is not under control of the warrior.

    I don't think adding rage to this is a good idea...

  3. #3
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    How do you figure you dont control the threat that you get. You place the vig on a target. How much more control do you need?

    Also with such a change it would be pretty complex due to the way other classes have to attack. For instance a warlock putting dots up. How much rage should a tic of a dot give the warrior.

    Also all this would do in practice is give us infinite rage. At that point why even bother having a rage bar.

  4. #4
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    Vigilance is already a sub optimal way to produce threat in the eyes of much of the warrior community (mine included). Fixing our rage issues by unloading it upon another member of the raid through vigilance is just insulting. IT's another reason to tune us around a mechanic that makes us dependant on others. I don't mind having to rely upon others in the scheme of the raid but having to rely upon someone else for the basic tools to do the job of tanking seems weak.

    Other issues include the way this would effect soloing (not at all) and what happens if you put vig on a non-dps class like a healer or other tank. How would they balance it to deal with the varying amount of damage output?

    Lastly it just seems to me this is another mechanic that would delay a fix to our comparative DPS amongst tanks. Even the proposed Shield Specialization fix doesn't deal with this concern. We need more rage, damage produces rage, so they should just let us do more damage. No more gimmicks no more strange mechanics no more excuses. I don't think we are advocating a buff as a community we just want to be inline with the others that is all.

  5. #5
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    How do you figure you dont control the threat that you get. You place the vig on a target. How much more control do you need?
    As much as the other three tanking classes have.

    On a different note, Vigilance is a pain in the arse, but unfortunately necessary in many situations.

    On Hodir, people who get the damage buffs put out mad threat, but not everyone gets them. I have no control on who gets then. Best I can do is also keep an eye on TPS and swap Vigilance as needed.... and that's a pain in the ass since the fight already requires quite a bit of attention.

    Therr are other, similar fights. Enough of an explanation?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stengel View Post
    The problem with vigilance is that the threat one gets is not under control of the warrior.


    As much as the other three tanking classes have.

    Enough of an explanation?
    Nope, because none of the other classes can get threat from their own abilities from other classes. Vigilance allows us to have a constant threat siphon off one person. That is something no other class has. You should have a pretty dang good idea who your highest tps person will be before the fight ever starts. Now if your trying to do it based on the persons dps, i can see where you would have the issue. But even on fights like hodir, i know to vig a a class without a threat dump

    and that's a pain in the ass since the fight already requires quite a bit of attention.
    So your saying your haveing to pay attention to something other than heroic strike spamming. Honestly, as a warrior tank, its not that hard to look at a threat meter every 30 seconds or so.

  7. #7
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    Hey Lizana

    I don't care what YOU think of Vigilance, or why you think it is good, or how you think certain fights work out.

    The idea to have Vigilance create rage from another person's dps is terrible.

    If you can't figure out why, then it's your problem. Have fun figuring it out.

  8. #8
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    Perhaps then a % of rage gained from damage taken as opposed to damage done. Maybe use vigilance as a rage source by using it on the MT when OTing. It would still be used to boost threat when applied to a DPSer, but alternatively could be used to provide some moderate rage gain when OTing

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbull View Post
    Perhaps then a % of rage gained from damage taken as opposed to damage done. Maybe use vigilance as a rage source by using it on the MT when OTing. It would still be used to boost threat when applied to a DPSer, but alternatively could be used to provide some moderate rage gain when OTing
    Then your stealing threat from the MT, causing your dps to cap, or if its a pally your overwriting his mana restore.

  10. #10
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    Vigilance is good because it is advanced threat management for your raid. Vigilance is bad because our DPS is atrocious and it's part of the problem. If the DPS can be addressed without removing Vigilance I'm all for it, but otherwise I'm lumping Vigilance into the 'this sucks' category.

  11. #11
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    First of all this is interesting to me because there's a suggestion here that vigilance need not be some fire-and-forget buff that props up a warrior's threat, that opens a lot of possibilities.

    As for rage, why use a % modifier of anything? Second wind/Bloodrage/AM are all decent models of how to reward rage without hitting *too many* scaling problems, a rage-over-time buff could work fine. And if that doesn't work, try a mechanic that mitigates the rage issue. For instance if the target crits (heal or dps), you roll x% chance to gain a damage buff. Or even a chance to instantly siphon part of your target's total threat.

    If you wanted to really push it, a class-specific proc effect could balance out an array of tanking issues. Hit a rogue for a chance at some +hit for example, or a paladin for more survivability. A long cd on switching might be neccessary to stop double-dipping, but the point is that warriors are in a unique position to play to the strengths of a raid, which was mentioned here. It could give warriors a unique advantage without making their playstyle too stale or blatantly overpowered.

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