DK Talents--Epidemic, Bladed Armor, Icy Talons

[Pylae]

I have a huge problem deciding if epidemic is all that great for frost.

I really dislike letting icy talons fall off so I mash pestilence sometimes as early as 50% before they fall off. But since I'm taking improved icy talons, I wonder if I should have glyph of disease anyway.

If I take epidemic I tend to get an extra obliterate in because I know I'll be able to put icy talons right back up afterwards.

Although this is a little less theory, I'm also the raid leader and I never run my rotation close to optimally due to the fact I'm trying to watch 24 other people, manage my tank cooldowns, and run out of the fire. Being able to mash pestilence to keep my diseases up certainly simplifies things.

What's a rough approximation of the threat difference between an icy touch, plague strike, and blood strike vs. an obliterate and a pestilence?

Edit: I've been reading for about an hour and am just starting to realize that there are about a billion things I don't know about DK talent choices. Damn Blizzard for giving us so many good talents! I'm also thinking Necrosis might be the answer for Vezax...shadow damage FTW! And I'm wondering if Improved Icy Talons is all that great.

Dylae

P.S. I have a hunch I need to spend some quality time with a target dummy.

(Having an 80 warrior and an 80 DK, patch 3.2 isn't going to make the warrior better than the DK, is it?)

[Sitharien]

I am assuming you are posing this question as it pertains to DPS, and not tanking. I will answer for both scenarios, just in case.

As a DPSer, I prefer Glyph of Howling Blast and a single Disease build. For this, Epidemic is a waste IMO. I have the Relic from XT though, and it allows me to focus more on Frost Strike and less on Obliterate for my Damage.

As a Frost Tank, you probably shouldn't take IIT at all, leave it for the shaman or DPS DKs to pick up.

[Pylae]

I'm a tank, and I don't raid with many shamans or DPS DKs. Do you have a link to more info on a 1-disease frost build?

[Feanorr]

Frozen Blows -- Frost DPS (Updated 06.11.09) - Elitist Jerks

It's a frost DPS discution but I used the same rotation as tank and it worked great; basicly it's this:

HB/OB/BS/BS/FS dump // OB/OB/OB/FS dump (HB is glyphed so it put frost fever on the target); as tank dont dump too much, keep enough RP for RS and tanking cd
use rime proc to refresh HB if you can
use KM proc on FS as much as possible (exept in AOE, use it on HB then)
no need of morbidity

I also used the same glyph than the frost dps one: HB (needed), FS (35% of my DPS/TPS) and OB (this one could be replaced by RS, it will probably be better for agro).

[Satorri]

My answer may not be the same as a min/max'ers, but if you don't have anyone to provide your raid with Imp Icy Talons/Windfury, and you have more than 1-2 melee people including yourself, it is a worthwhile investment for the group. It will not be your personal best value, though, and it will cost you good talents to get it, so choose your other talents wisely if you decide to keep it.

Epidemic is good for stretching out your rotations, but as Frost it can may be more easily dropped. If you're using a method like the FF-only rotations (which can feel rather more comfortable once you're used to them) with glyphed HB, you'll be applying the diseases so regularly that you won't miss the extended duration, though it will buy you time if you don't proc Rime or use HB on CD/availability.

You also put Bladed Armor in you title. If that's something you'd put on the chopping block, I'd consider that very carefully. Personally, in full raid buffs, it is over 860 AP (947 AP with the +10% ap proc/buff up), a full 17-18% of my total AP. That buffs all of your moves, top to bottom.