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Thread: Blade Warding by the Logs

  1. #1

    Blade Warding by the Logs

    Trying to nail down the exact worth of this enchant. We'll look primarily at logs this time to break it down. Comparisons are welcome. Mongoose and 26 agility come to mind as enchants similar enough to be compared.

    I'm most interested in the up time, the number of stacks, and the uptime of the additional stacks.

    Further useful information like number of times the boss swung at you. How many times the damage portion went off. What your attack table looked like for the duration of the fight.

    Mostly we need to see lots of logs. (May be difficult because most are using the more EH style enchant because they are in progression mode.)

  2. #2
    Some stuff SquishemHard posted elsewhere.

    More Data:

    New XT-002 Hardmode:
    Buff Uptime: 17.2%
    Blade Warding Procs: 19
    Two Stacks: 4
    Blade Warding Hits: 13
    Damage Done: 14,160 (1.0%)
    Buffs Triggered: 13/15


    Auriaya:
    Buff Uptime: 19.5%
    Blade Warding Procs: 9
    Two Stacks: 1
    Blade Warding Hits: 6
    Damage Done: 6,161 (1.3%)
    Buffs Triggered: 6/8


    Hodir Hardmode:
    Buff Uptime: 29.5%
    Blade Warding Procs: 8
    Two Stacks: 1
    Blade Warding Hits: 6
    Damage Done: 6,529 (1.6%)
    Buffs Triggered: 6/7
    Side Note: Mongoose is hands down better for this fight due to the encounters crit buffs, however irrelevant to the topic this tidbit is.

    Using my unbuffed numbers, my gear lets me get the following from blade ward at the following stacks... (From observing character panel while attacking a dummy)
    Base Parry: 18.93%
    1st Stack: 21.53% (+2.60%)
    2nd Stack: 23.80% (+2.27%)
    3rd Stack: 25.79% (+1.99%)

    WoL

  3. #3
    That Hodir fight has a really high up time so I'll look at that one first cause it can get a sense of the higher end of the possibilities.


    SquishemHard received 55 melee hits over the course of the 187 second fight. With an uptime of 29.5% that means that 16 hits were received under the effect of the buff. The one instance of the buff stacking was about 9 seconds of 200 additional parry rating which effectively increased value of the uptime by 16% vs a single stack.

    So the overall additional parry rating averaged over the fights duration is ~68 parry rating. Thats about 1.39% added avoidance over all.

    Some math:

    55 seconds of uptime with 9 seconds at double the parry.
    9/55 = 0.16
    200*1.16 = 232 = average parry rating during the buff.

    Overall
    232*0.295 = 68 average parry rating
    68/49.18 = 1.39% added parry.

    Consequently he parried 6 times during the buff. Oddly enough (and possibly just a quirk of the RNG) he shows to have a 37.5% parry rate during the active portion of the buff. Another anecdotal yet noteworthy effect is that he managed to get his second stack up just before he received the Freeze debuff and managed to parry just before it ended. Thats a very advantageous bit of timing and very possibly could have been a saving grace.

  4. #4
    Same log but using XT-002 fight. Lowest uptime.

    Tank received 163 melee attacks during the duration of the fight. 163 melee attacks total, 17.2% uptime of buff means 28 melee attacks came while the buff was up. Two stacks were reached 4 times in the fight where about 15 seconds existed with the double parry rating which gives a ~16% increase in parry rating average.

    The overall additional parry rating averaged over the fights duration is ~40 parry rating. Thats about 0.81% added avoidance.

    Math:

    96 seconds of uptime with 15 seconds at double the parry.
    15/96 = 0.16
    200*1.16 = 232 = average parry rating during the buff.

    Overall
    232*0.172 = 40 average parry rating
    40/49.18 = 0.81% added parry.

    Incidental information shows he actually parried 46% of all attacks while the buff was up. Even in the full duration of the fight he parried more than he dodged even though his dodge chance is around 10% higher than his parry chance on his character sheet. I call this section circumstantial or incidental because over time we can call it a trend but not till we get more logs.
    Last edited by Superspy23; 06-25-2009 at 03:37 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superspy23 View Post
    Same log but using XT-002 fight. Lowest uptime.
    Actually both ignis and razor both had lower up times of the buff. Ignis with 15.1% uptime and razor with 7.4%. As well as the first try on mimi with a 12.7% uptime

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    Actually both ignis and razor both had lower up times of the buff. Ignis with 15.1% uptime and razor with 7.4%. As well as the first try on mimi with a 12.7% uptime
    The owner of the logs stated that there were irregularities that would make them a poor representation of the buffs usefulness and shouldn't be used unless you factor those extenuating circumstances.

  7. #7
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    As he will not share those reasons i cannot factor them in. With that said they are still valid logs.

  8. #8
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    Ignis I died on. Data for it is invalid. Razorscale we took extended time to kill guardian dwarfs, I wasn't tanking anything half the time and let tanks with less reactive damage do it. Data for it is invalid. First Mimiron attempt was us trying hardmode for giggles, I was dead for half the fight. Data for it is invalid. Taking data where you don't know the environment is almost never an acceptable source for data analysis, but then again those fights weren't listed in the first place for a reason.

    Please keep this thread to information that is provided. As data gathered without being provided environment variables is unreliable to base any conclusion on and thus useless. Any data I provide is assumed the fight went as normal using commonly accepted strategies unless otherwise noted.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    As he will not share those reasons i cannot factor them in. With that said they are still valid logs.
    Thus the reason we focus on what we do know.

  10. #10
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    wait wait wait wait. I still don't get it, why are these all invalid jsut because you died?

    while you were alive, it records how many swings you took, how many procs, and how long they stayed up no? how is that not valid?

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  12. #12
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    This one is from last Tuesday

    http://wowwebstats.com/xuniomsan25go

    and the week before that.

    Wow Web Stats
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  13. #13
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    I died, but the fight didn't end. This has uptime percentages showing the enchant is less effective than it actually was during that fight. If people were to take those factors into account and only count the time where I was tanking something then the data would be valid. It hasn't happened so far and is almost impossible to determine from a fight like razor. Regardless, if you don't know the environment for data, you HAVE to assume its invalid, unless your just curious and not going to base an analysis/conclusion on it.

    The enchant doesn't change in actual effectiveness from fight to fight that the enchant works for (physical). The only thing that changes is the RNG which we have to accept, and the encounter design, which we can intelligently look at from fight to fight to determine if a parse from the fight will provide accurate data, and what conditions/exceptions we need to acknowledge for the parse.

    If I manage to get into a group on the PTR I will attempt to get dummy patchwerk numbers, as a parse of that will be the most accurate for evaluating the enchants.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarigar View Post
    XT-002 fight. 25% uptime.

    Tank received 114 melee attacks during the duration of the fight. 163 melee attacks total, 25% uptime of buff means 28 melee attacks came while the buff was up. Could just be that I'm bad at reading WWS but I'm not seeing any stacks in this one.

    The overall additional parry rating averaged over the fights duration is 50 parry rating. Thats about 1.02% added avoidance.

    Math:

    88 seconds at 200 parry rating.

    Overall
    200*0.025 = 50 average parry rating
    50/49.18 = 1.02% added parry.

    Incendentally, while the buff was up the tank parried ~38% of all attacks.

  15. #15
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    The enchant doesn't change in actual effectiveness from fight to fight that the enchant works for (physical)
    You are not providing a fair assessment of the enchant if you only look at physical only fights. If 90% of the fights were physical only then you would have an argument, but it needs to be stated for any analysis that the enchant provides Zero befit against any and all magic damage

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    You are not providing a fair assessment of the enchant if you only look at physical only fights. If 90% of the fights were physical only then you would have an argument, but it needs to be stated for any analysis that the enchant provides Zero befit against any and all magic damage
    It is exactly because the enchant provides 0 benefit regarding magic damage that we ignore magic damage. If it was even .0001% effective against magic damage we could take that into account. It makes no sense to test it against situations we know it will provide no benefit. Once we get the baseline for the effectiveness where it's applies, we can determine whether or not it will be useful over another enchant or not for a specific encounter. (This is me agreeing with you and elaborating)

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    You are not providing a fair assessment of the enchant if you only look at physical only fights. If 90% of the fights were physical only then you would have an argument, but it needs to be stated for any analysis that the enchant provides Zero befit against any and all magic damage
    Depends on how you look at it. It is true that it doesn't provide any protection against magical damage but fights where the boss stops to cast often will have a much higher likelihood to produce higher stacking of the buff. This provides greater opportunity to avoid the next physical damage. I don't know of any fights where the magic damage surpasses the physical for a tank. And I know that a double stack isn't guaranteed but all in all thats definitely not zero benefit.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarigar View Post
    Best attempt on general.

    20% uptime, 175 second fight, 4 procs, 3 parries while the proc was up, no stacking.

    Overall 40 parry rating, about 0.81% parry.

    Incedentially he parried 30% of all attacks that occurred while the buff was up.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superspy23 View Post
    Incedentially he parried 30% of all attacks that occurred while the buff was up.
    So essentially the buff would last me to ~ the 3rd swing.
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