Tier 9 and other changes

[Amallthia]

I was wondering how everyone is feeling about all the changes to 3.2 and the t9 gear.

http://www.wow.com/tag/tier-9/

I'm a bit worried about the emblem changes. I've heard a lot of people saying they are excited because now their under geared mains or alts will be able to get some great gear fast. They will not have to spend hours in a fail naxx pugs trying to gear up enough to raid in Ulduar.

However, I have also heard a few people say that they probably won't be signing up for Ulduar 25s if they can get decent gear through running heroics for emblems. It will be more flexible, profitable, and less time consuming to just run 5-man heroics than put aside 8-12 hours a week to raid.

I was also looking at the tier 9 sets and am really depressed about my 2-set bonus... As a priest I will have 2 seconds taken off of my PoM CD -_- lame... it is an instant cast, that will jump for 30 seconds or 5 jumps, I have never been in a "OMG I need PoM up NOW" situation. The nice thing about the spell is that it is a cast and forget about it spell (till it runs out), not a spam it every time the CD is up like CoH. I'd rather see a small CD reduction on that or my PoH (which is getting a bit of a nerf).

At any rate I was wondering how the other healers are feeling about the changes whether they be buffs, nerfs, or concerns.

[Cookie]

You can only get the new Triumph of emblems at the rate of about 2 per day through quests. And Ulduar drops better loot than what you can buy from all badges currently in game, with the exception of the T8.5 head/chest which also drops in Ulduar anyway.

Unless you are stupid, it's more time consuming to run heroics. A full Ulduar run has 13 bosses which will each drop 3 pieces of gear better than conquest badge loot. Down 13 heroics bosses and all you get is a vendor item and a badge. What can you buy with 13 heroics badges? But those 13 bosses means at least 1 or 2 upgrades for you if you're not already overgeared.

A full Naxx clear can easily be done within 1.5-4 hours depending on your skill. There's 15 bosses which each drop 3-4 pieces. Sure you might not get what you want, but you'd have to be pretty geared already or have to have very bad RNG to get nothing each run. Most heroics take at least half an hour even if you're fast, an hour or more if you're slow.

Only the people who don't know how to make the best use of their time or who have just plain bad luck will pick to only heroics farm. The smarter people will raid each week and use heroics to supplement badges so they gear up the fastest way possible.

If they don't know what's effecient, then someone should explain it to them. And if they're just too stupid to raid, then well, I kind of find it quite sad really that there's people who are spending months to farm heroics bosses each day for months so that they can wear 2 pieces of a tier it took me 3 weeks to get a set of and have now discarded, simply because they have no other option.


Oh and I doubt these set bonuses will make it to live. Mmo-champion datamined them from the PTR and they really seem more like placeholders. If they're not placeholders, most of the bonuses are shit anyway, so it's not like priests are shafted. And in a way, I'd be happy if they are real, because non-set gear has always been better than tier gear, it's just that you get "forced" to wear them sometimes to maintain a good bonus.

A nerf to poh was needed, but I'm not too happy about the penance nerf. The justification GC gave for it is BS in my eyes. The Inspiration change is REALLY nice, both for pve and pvp.

[Elvira]

I've just had a look at Warrior T9 Tank 2P Bonus (Intervene) (Class: Warrior) -- Decreases the cooldown on your Intervene ability by 5 sec. Maybe its me, I know i suck at tanking but why would I need a lower CD on Intervene when i don't use it, like i said my tanking may not be great but do any MTs use it. and if the answer is we don't use it why has Blizzard decided to add it to our gear or like i said maybe i fail as a tank

[qygibo]

The holy paladin 2 set bonus is interesting.. increasing the length of judgments by 10 seconds. That combined with the libram, which will offer a chance to increase your spellpower by 234 for 20 secs when you judge, should finally make those paladins who just stand back and heal realize that my way of healing is indeed awesome (It's also why I look forward to the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerfs, because I tend to melee for mana more than anything).

[Elvira]

I've just had a look at Warrior T9 Tank 2P Bonus (Intervene) (Class: Warrior) -- Decreases the cooldown on your Intervene ability by 5 sec. Maybe its me, I know i suck at tanking but why would I need a lower CD on Intervene when i don't use it, like i said my tanking may not be great but do any MTs use it. and if the answer is we don't use it why has Blizzard decided to add it to our gear or like i said maybe i fail as a tank

Pls join my petiton against this set piece @ World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> T9 Set piece Bonus for tanks cry

[Meeks]

The holy paladin 2 set bonus is interesting.. increasing the length of judgments by 10 seconds. That combined with the libram, which will offer a chance to increase your spellpower by 234 for 20 secs when you judge, should finally make those paladins who just stand back and heal realize that my way of healing is indeed awesome (It's also why I look forward to the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerfs, because I tend to melee for mana more than anything).

Why would the set bonus change the way you heal at all? Especially with the libram.

Judgments are already 20 seconds. Making them 30 seconds but tying the spellpower proc to judgment makes the 2 piece bonus 100% useless as we will still be judging at least every 20 seconds if not more often.

[Amallthia]

Oh and I doubt these set bonuses will make it to live. Mmo-champion datamined them from the PTR and they really seem more like placeholders.

Pls join my petiton against this set piece @ World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> T9 Set piece Bonus for tanks cry

As Cookie has said above, there bonuses are probably place holders. Someone on another forum mentioned that blizzard has confirmed that these are only place holders, but I am still searching for the blue that will back it up.

[Cookie]

Plus you shouldn't be making petition threads, they're against Blizzard's rules. If you do it more than once, you could be suspended or banned.

[qygibo]

Why would the set bonus change the way you heal at all? Especially with the libram.

Judgments are already 20 seconds. Making them 30 seconds but tying the spellpower proc to judgment makes the 2 piece bonus 100% useless as we will still be judging at least every 20 seconds if not more often.

Actually, there are a lot of paladins who only judge once every 60 seconds to keep their haste buff up, they don't actually try to keep their judgments up in order to help the rest of the group out of concerns for their GCD; whereas I actively go out and whack on the mobs and try to judge every 8 seconds while still maintaining my healing.

It ties into the fact that I melee for mana, so it also makes me happy that there's the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerf coming up so that those min/maxers of intellect that can get up to 28k mana unbuffed can finally play the way Blizzard intended to.

[Cookie]

Actually, there are a lot of paladins who only judge once every 60 seconds to keep their haste buff up, they don't actually try to keep their judgments up in order to help the rest of the group out of concerns for their GCD; whereas I actively go out and whack on the mobs and try to judge every 8 seconds while still maintaining my healing.

It ties into the fact that I melee for mana, so it also makes me happy that there's the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerf coming up so that those min/maxers of intellect that can get up to 28k mana unbuffed can finally play the way Blizzard intended to.

The nerfs were to make mp5 more attrative and because all the top Paladin regen stats right now are also output stats, which is overpowered. Meleeing the boss was never the intended form of mana regen for paladins. But if you can hit mobs for mana and not have tanks die (keep in mind that tanks are the people who need constant healing), then I think you're either bringing too many healers or your raid is too overgeared for the encounter they're doing.

Currently, there's really no point to gem for spellpower. Holy light, due to it's long cast already scales very well, and because of how huge it is, spellpower gems contibute more to overhealing than anything else. Geming for Intellect is a lot easier and better than having to melee the boss, which is a very inefficient way to regen mana.

[qygibo]

The nerfs were to make mp5 more attrative and because all the top Paladin regen stats right now are also output stats, which is overpowered. Meleeing the boss was never the intended form of mana regen for paladins. But if you can hit mobs for mana and not have tanks die (keep in mind that tanks are the people who need constant healing), then I think you're either bringing too many healers or your raid is too overgeared for the encounter they're doing.

Currently, there's really no point to gem for spellpower. Holy light, due to it's long cast already scales very well, and because of how huge it is, spellpower gems contibute more to overhealing than anything else. Geming for Intellect is a lot easier and better than having to melee the boss, which is a very inefficient way to regen mana.

I'm aware of why the nerfs were in place. But I've always melee mobs for mana, even when we were on progression content. I've done it ever since I started doing Heroic 5 man instances when myself and others didn't have the gear that we have now. And I'm pretty sure that back when the changes to Judgments and Seals were first put into place that they were intended for all paladins to be able to go up to whack on the mob, even holy pallies.

Meleeing for mana is actually pretty easy to do when the boss is positioned correctly, and when you stand in a spot where you aren't going to get hit by needless damage.

[Lizana]

The nerfs were to make mp5 more attrative and because all the top Paladin regen stats right now are also output stats, which is overpowered. Meleeing the boss was never the intended form of mana regen for paladins. But if you can hit mobs for mana and not have tanks die (keep in mind that tanks are the people who need constant healing), then I think you're either bringing too many healers or your raid is too overgeared for the encounter they're doing.

Currently, there's really no point to gem for spellpower. Holy light, due to it's long cast already scales very well, and because of how huge it is, spellpower gems contibute more to overhealing than anything else. Geming for Intellect is a lot easier and better than having to melee the boss, which is a very inefficient way to regen mana.

The thing is, Meleeing the boss doesn't affect healing, doesn't effect the other mana regen at all. You will regen the same amount of mana from replenishment and mp5 and illumination that you will if you stand back away from the boss. And actually meleeing of the boss to keep a judgment up was the original function of it. So to say that it was not supposed to happen is a falsehood. Now there have been changes to make it easier to keep a judgement up, but why would you not melee the boss to give yourself even greater regen.

As the part about not geming for spellpower, anytime you need a bigger heal, spell power will always be the best stat to increase your hps. It can lead to over healing, but so can throwing too many heals. I have never heard a tank say, dang that heal was just too big, can you throw a smaller one next time...

[Cookie]

I'm aware of why the nerfs were in place. But I've always melee mobs for mana, even when we were on progression content. I've done it ever since I started doing Heroic 5 man instances when myself and others didn't have the gear that we have now. And I'm pretty sure that back when the changes to Judgments and Seals were first put into place that they were intended for all paladins to be able to go up to whack on the mob, even holy pallies.

Meleeing for mana is actually pretty easy to do when the boss is positioned correctly, and when you stand in a spot where you aren't going to get hit by needless damage.

Heroics, I'm not going to comment on, they're currently so easy that you can get away with a lot of bad playing even if the group is only geared in blues. It's the almost same for Naxx as well.

Judging the boss when you have a spare GCD? Yeah sure but meleeing and making judgements a priority? If people who need healing can stay alive long enough for you to get any significant regen by doing something you shouldn't need to, then it's time to be evaluating the amount of healers you're bringing, or if you should be progressing onto the next encounter. Geming for Int is a much better option, it's a passive regen for starters, and doesn't come at the cost of output.

[Lizana]

You do realize that auto attacking the boss does not interrupt healing... And int is far from passive regen, it requires replenishment or Divine plea for any regen. Neither are passive effects.

Shes not saying stand there dont heal and just autoattack the boss, but you will still swing your mace as your healing. And it can still give very good regen at zero loss of healing or output.

[Meeks]

Actually, there are a lot of paladins who only judge once every 60 seconds to keep their haste buff up, they don't actually try to keep their judgments up in order to help the rest of the group out of concerns for their GCD; whereas I actively go out and whack on the mobs and try to judge every 8 seconds while still maintaining my healing.

It ties into the fact that I melee for mana, so it also makes me happy that there's the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerf coming up so that those min/maxers of intellect that can get up to 28k mana unbuffed can finally play the way Blizzard intended to.

You do realize that even with all the changes stacking intellect is still by a wide margin the best way to focus gearing/gems? Sure our max mana will go down a bit but that does not mean it is no longer the best way to gear. In fact if you switch over to all the mp5 gear and keep stacking int your regen will be almost the same as it was before. Paladin healing in top end raids is not changing at all except for the fact you will targeting raid members instead of the tank and you will flash the tank once every 12 seconds. The changes are really just made to justify the itemization they put in for Ulduar.

[Lizana]

You do realize that even with all the changes stacking intellect is still by a wide margin the best way to focus gearing/gems?

Do you have updated numbers showing this? Taking into account replenishment changes, illumination nerf and divine int nerf?

[Cookie]

You do realize that even with all the changes stacking intellect is still by a wide margin the best way to focus gearing/gems? Sure our max mana will go down a bit but that does not mean it is no longer the best way to gear. In fact if you switch over to all the mp5 gear and keep stacking int your regen will be almost the same as it was before. Paladin healing in top end raids is not changing at all except for the fact you will targeting raid members instead of the tank and you will flash the tank once every 12 seconds. The changes are really just made to justify the itemization they put in for Ulduar.

The PTRs just went up, so anything can change, but so far this does seem accurate. But I have to add that with how MP5 gear generally has more spellpower, the FoL buff and the beacon range increased and the up to 50% to Holy light if it's casted on the raid, spellpower becomes even less important to gem for than it is right now. Pure regen gems are pretty much spirit, mp5, or int. Spirit is useless to paladins, mp5 gems are quite bad unless they get buffed while Int gems offer the most value. There's crit, but even currently, it isn't attractive to gem for.

So qygibo, the only 3.2 change that truly benefits your playstyle is that your JoL won't be subpar anymore.

[qygibo]

You do realize that even with all the changes stacking intellect is still by a wide margin the best way to focus gearing/gems? Sure our max mana will go down a bit but that does not mean it is no longer the best way to gear. In fact if you switch over to all the mp5 gear and keep stacking int your regen will be almost the same as it was before. Paladin healing in top end raids is not changing at all except for the fact you will targeting raid members instead of the tank and you will flash the tank once every 12 seconds. The changes are really just made to justify the itemization they put in for Ulduar.

I would like to see your numbers for this, as Liz has asked, because there's more to take into account than just the Illumination and Divine Intellect nerf, there's also the nerf to Replenishment to look at.

@ Cookie: I'm not a min/maxer, having learned long ago that it's better long term to balance things out. I typically do tend to gem based on socket bonuses, and I would probably get people like you and Meeks to go WTF on me because my mana pool is *only* 20k unbuffed (even though having insane amounts of mana isn't really needed at all). I gem usually by the socket color somewhat, I see no need to really go hardcore and stack int.