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Thread: 3.2 Dk Tank Huge nerf ?

  1. #121
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    I kind of quickly went through this and didn't notice if anyone posted some SBV numbers if you are stacking blocking specifically but I'll give you a quick thing that I noticed when I copied my character over.

    Currently I have been working on a "Ridiculous Block Set" for my warrior for a laugh in PvP and have every item you could pretty much want for SBV except the Conquest Badge legs, which puts me @~2100 sbv unbuffed. This is going with all +str gems as well, and titanium plating shield enchant, defense chest enchant, shoulder defense enchant and the 5% sbv meta. On the PTR this set goes to ~2600 unbuffed. Also note I go with T7.5 Helm/Shoulders for the 10% SS dmg bonus, so I am sure I could eek out a bit more SBV from swapping shoulders and helm.

    I generally tend to log out with the set on since I also do dailies with it, making me basically unhittable, hooray for soloing chillmaw with it! So if you're curious as to the setup you can see what I'm using.

    Also for those that are curious, this translates in to 10-16k SS crits in PvP, which makes people go huh what? I did play around with gemming all defense to see what I could get my block rate to and exceeded the 50% mark, which makes naxx trash pretty hilarious in that outfit.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

  2. #122
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    The nerfs do suck, and having ~7% less health as a blood tank will also suck since I always tease the other MT (a Paladin) about it. However, I trust my healers. I don't think it'll be too big a problem. Blizzard won't destroy DK tanking.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miagorme View Post
    since I always tease the other MT (a Paladin) about it.
    Karma is a fantastic thing.

  4. #124
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    Haha, yeah. It's all good though, we couldn't decide who should MT XT on an easy night so we raced to see who got there first. He got two shotted. We tease eachother all the time and help as much as we can. It's awesome.

    More on track though, the nerfs don't mean DKs will not be able to tank anything anymore. It just means we won't do 80% of the survivability work anymore. Healers will need to step up.

  5. #125
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    I agree with you Satorri.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reki View Post
    but it's ok to have a similar geared DK have less armor and health and no block after the patch?
    No, but its okay to have a similar geared DK with about the same armor, and about the same health, and still no block after the patch - as opposed to more armor, more health, and vastly superior instantaneous mitigation cooldowns.

    I do not believe DK's will be worse than the other tanks post patch, but the margin they have over other tanks as it is wont be as pronounced.

    Jameak

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameak View Post
    No, but its okay to have a similar geared DK with about the same armor, and about the same health, and still no block after the patch -
    Sorry but no, it's not ok. Even if block isnt a huge thing, it's still something that we dont have; and since everything that we have more than other tanks (health, armor, CDs) will be gone, it's not ok.

    I agree that currently DK have more advantages than other tanks, mainly because, as someone said, we got a 1min cd that can be used to mostly all critical situation in ulduar.
    And I know that it wont make us enable to tank anything, but as the tank manager of our guild I know how it work when you have to chose a tank for a fight: you see what "plus" each tank have for this fight. And after 3.2, DK wont have any "plus" left, they will just have something less (block). Even if this less isnt much it's still something, and on hard fight you need all what you can to put all the chance on your side.
    Exemple: between a 40k tank and a 41k tank, the difference may not be much, but if you are trying a hard mode for the first time (and if player skill are similar) you will choose the 41k one.
    Well, even if block isnt a huge boost I am sure it make more difference than 1k of health.
    Like for everything else in PVEHL, it's about min-maxing (not sure if my english is correct ^^)

    And it would be even worse in pick up.

    The CD nerf was needed (even if I would have prefered another solution, cause I like the dynamic of cd tanking), but the health and armor nerf are too much.


    Niniel

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selyndia View Post
    Block Value gear is generally garbage due to itemization, even with the proposed changes for the two classes for similar, but different reasons.
    The math has been done on this forum, I can't find it but...on average, bock value would have to be increased to something like over 4000 unbuffed in order for it to bring shield users up to the mitigation of non-shield users in equal gear (3.1 mechanics). Over 4000 unbuffed block, even with 3.2 most warriors/pallys will never get close to that unbuffed (unless they're screwing around). The average block shield users carry is probably around 1300. It just isn't worth a bucket of spit.

    Added block isn't going to impact the game any more than the DK being brought down a tad.
    Former healbot now a Disgruntled protection warrior.

  8. #128
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    After seeing some of the loot that comes out of the new raid zone I am less worried about the nerfs to DK's. For example the 10 man normal trinket that has 114 dodge and a +1265 armor equip that stacks up to 5 times. I doubt it has 100% uptime but as our current gear stands that would push many of the decently geared DK's up to absurd amount of armor. There are a few other items like this that are going to be rather easy to attain. Then I go to the far end and look at heroic 25 drop loot. If we didn't loose stamina we would have 55k (give or take) buffed in BiS gear.

    Ive tanked all content on my warrior and on my DK. My DK makes things so much easier for my healers and raid that it's not even funny. We needed brought down, maybe it was to much but I doubt that it's going to affect anything. I seriously doubt blizzard is going to destroy their newest class.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    Sorry but no, it's not ok. Even if block isnt a huge thing, it's still something that we dont have; and since everything that we have more than other tanks (health, armor, CDs) will be gone, it's not ok.

    I agree that currently DK have more advantages than other tanks, mainly because, as someone said, we got a 1min cd that can be used to mostly all critical situation in ulduar.
    And I know that it wont make us enable to tank anything, but as the tank manager of our guild I know how it work when you have to chose a tank for a fight: you see what "plus" each tank have for this fight. And after 3.2, DK wont have any "plus" left, they will just have something less (block). Even if this less isnt much it's still something, and on hard fight you need all what you can to put all the chance on your side.
    Exemple: between a 40k tank and a 41k tank, the difference may not be much, but if you are trying a hard mode for the first time (and if player skill are similar) you will choose the 41k one.
    Well, even if block isnt a huge boost I am sure it make more difference than 1k of health.
    Like for everything else in PVEHL, it's about min-maxing (not sure if my english is correct ^^)

    And it would be even worse in pick up.

    The CD nerf was needed (even if I would have prefered another solution, cause I like the dynamic of cd tanking), but the health and armor nerf are too much.


    Niniel
    IBF is only one of your cooldowns, what about spell mitigation for instance? AMS, AMZ? What about your superb AOE-Threat?

    Mitigation is one thing but you have serveral other cards on other tanks. Now since I am a prot warrior im more inclined to see you nerfed than say druids that are probably even more OP than DKs, if not now, then in 3.2.

    Don't come off as if you are going to be broken or something, because you aren't.

  10. #130
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    Dk's could tank before the nerf and they will tank after the nerf. I just wish that the stamina nerf wasn't as drastic. I am losing alot more health on the PTR than I am comfortable with : \

  11. #131
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    I sincerely hope at the end of the day the nerf doesn't prove to be too much of an issue for the DK's. I am all about every tank class having an equal shot at successfully competing for the ever so coveted MT slot.

  12. #132
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    As long as death strike and rune tap exist, blood dk's will always be ridiculous. no worries. Interestingly enough, when blizzard does realize how bad they screwed up with those two abilities, they'll probably have to revisit alot of these other nerfs.

  13. #133
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    This thread needs to die, seeing the name pop up when it is bumped is encouraging people to keep thinking that this nerf could possibly kill DK tanking. It's laughable.

    We're taking a hit, we're still going to be comparable to any other tank, let's leave it be now.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  14. #134
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    *passes his "worst, but still viable" badge to DKs*

    Have fun guys! At least your next tier gear isn't polluted by unwanted stats, this alongside the new sigil and the competition for the 3rd place might become very close!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hengist View Post
    *passes his "worst, but still viable" badge to DKs*

    Have fun guys! At least your next tier gear isn't polluted by unwanted stats, this alongside the new sigil and the competition for the 3rd place might become very close!

    QQ more, go play AoC
    Your ad could be here.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubzil View Post
    QQ more, go play AoC
    QQ? I don't QQ, I'm trying to cheer you up. DKs are still viable, as viable as warriors in 3.1, just no longer the best, and probably the worst, but still within the "viable". If someone proven himself as a skilled tank in 3.1, he will still tank in 3.2.

  17. #137
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    It's the "probably the worst" part that needs to stop, and (if it were coming from a DK) would be rightly labeled as QQ.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  18. #138
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    No, warriors still be the worst since their mechanics are still broken. Even though they got bandages in 3.2 it doesn't matter. DPS/TPS will still be lower then the other tanks and since most people seem to think that is what makes the tank, warriors get to keep the title. As a prior warrior tank for several years I keep up with both sides of the fence. Also since I raid lead I tend to keep current on tanking changes. I have no tank that I prefer to tank over another. What matters is skill and the gear to handle the job. If anyone thinks that Blizzard is going to make the DK's a non-viable raid tank able to fill any role in the raid they are jaded.

    Kind of sad to see a warrior or paladin come in and make comments like "HA HA" or "Welcome to my world" Just shows how mature you are and how poorly you are representing your class. The top guilds in the world used warriors tanking, they may not have been doing all of the boss tanking but I'll tell you what. Think their raid was not damn thankful to have a warrior there to taunt the immortals on Yogg no keepers and kite them away or grab adds on Algalon. Those jobs are just as important as the person keeping agro/moving the boss to avoid things.

    Piece of shit posts like that make me not want to re-up my donor status to Tankspot. Place is starting to look an aweful lot like the free forums I get with WoW.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzobee View Post
    IBF is only one of your cooldowns, what about spell mitigation for instance? AMS, AMZ? What about your superb AOE-Threat?

    Mitigation is one thing but you have serveral other cards on other tanks. Now since I am a prot warrior im more inclined to see you nerfed than say druids that are probably even more OP than DKs, if not now, then in 3.2.

    Don't come off as if you are going to be broken or something, because you aren't.
    Well, I didnt want to bring it to the table but since you did here we go: every others tank's classes are complaining about DK's mitigation but the fact that pally have a huge lead on threat, for both AOE and single, doesnt seem to bother anyone (exept me).

    Our superb AOE-threat? the only DK spec that have this is unholy and for that you loose a lot of single threat (enough to make it barely enough for non-hard fight; plus this AOE threat are also being nerfed (unholy blight going from aoe to single).
    People seem to forget that the fact that DK have 3 different tanking spec also mean that they dont have all the advantages at once.
    Right now, in 3.1, the best survival spec is blood; and the result of this spec is mainly what others tanks are complaining about.
    And as blood, our aoe threat is weaker than druid's one and faaaar behind pally's one; war I am not sure cause I dont have any similarly equiped war in my guild to compare, but even with less gear, our war isnt worst than me for AOE threat.



    Now, I never said that we were gonna be broken; just that we are loosing all our "plus", while still having some "less".

    Niniel

    PS: BTW you are saying druid are gonna be OP in 3.2, look at what pal got; most people doesnt seem to realise how good ardent defender is going to be but as a DK with a similar ability (yet less powerfull) in the past (WOTN before the nerf), I am guessing a huge increase in pal popularity for pally in 3.2; and I am not talking about the 2min timer thing but the passive effect: every dangerous big hit will be reduced by 30%. Think about the old sartha, if pal had this ability for sartha 3D, they would have been the first choice for it.
    Last edited by Feanorr; 07-29-2009 at 12:06 AM.

  20. #140
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    firstly... /agree with Satorri
    imho, I don't think that it's really gonna break DK tanks (not that i'm a good theorycrafter)... also, I doubt this will be thaaat much of a break unless you're in a real hardcore progression guild who demands strict performance...

    I will agree that I'll feel slightly squishier than I've been before... admittedly i'm no where near some of you tanks here in gear (gnoblet's my tank if you want to armory... although i'm mostly in dps gear as I usually do my dailies before logging)... I can't remember who mentioned the deck of cards phrase (forgive me... 7 pages of opinions really does melt the brain quite abit, lol)... but yes, I'll take the cards dealt and do the best i can... because apart from my class and gear, I bring it as a player and an individual...

    last bit (and sorry to sidetrack, i can't find any other threads that talk about this... also dont think it deserves a new thread...) but, has anyone read anything about DW tanking post 3.2? ElitistJerks only has DW DPS post 3.2...

    P.S. i'll prolly get flamed for this but... everyone take a chill pill?

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