3.2 and Blood DK Tank Health/Armour Help

[Vlad]

I've been trying to figure out what the new armour and stam changes will mean for my DK tank (blood spec) and I'm sure I'm getting it wrong, can anyone help with this?

Here's my stats currently talented with Toughness (the DK talent not the mining bonus) and Veteran:
Stam 2436
Heath 35.8k (in frost presence)
Armour 26038 (in frost presence)

Here's my stats untalented:
Stam 2299
Heath 34.2k (in frost presence)
Armour 22753 (in frost presence)

Is anyone able to work out what my health and armour in FP will be in 3.2?

My calcs say I end up with 32796 health talented in FP.. doesn't seem right? I can't figure out the armour.

[Miste]

Ok, so your unbuffed, untalented health without frost presence is 31.1K.

Under the new rules you'll gain 9% stamina as a blood tank in frost presence. You're health will be approximately 33.2K.

For armor, you'll be at 25028 after the next patch. For reference, it is much easier to see the changes from the next patch if you post everything from blood presence. Then you can apply the new multipliers to unbuffed totals.

[Vlad]

So I'm gonna lose 2600 health and 1k armour..

I guess it'll work out to be a much greater loss between raid buffed now and new raid buffed given the way it's calculated?

[Satorri]

The way to calculate health:

(Stam - 20)*10 + 20 + 8121 = Total health

Using the stamina you have. In Frost Pres we currently multiply that total health by 1.10, and as Blood our Stamina is multiplied by 1.06.

In the next patch, that Stam factor is being reduced to 1.03 from Vot3W, and instead of multiplying our total health in Frost Pres, we'll add another 1.06 factor to the stamina. So using your unbuffed, out of Frost Pres numbers right now, your new health will be:

(1.03 x 1.06 x Stam - 20) x 10 + 20 + 8121 = *3.2*Total Health

Armor we'll be losing 5% from our gear, not including bonus armor (necks, rings, trinkets, enchants, and the additional value on pieces that have a green armor value).

So yeah, for me I'll be losing over 1100 armor (~1% dmg reduction, 4% of my current value), and 2600 health (7% of my current total), before buffs. It hurts since it's just pure nerf, but with time I'm sure the crying will stop so I can not feel crushed.

I take some solace in the fact that prof buffs are getting bumped and epic gems are being released. I may lose while the other tanks gain but if I'm lucky I can break even or better on my current survival values, somewhat.

[Vlad]

Yeah I'm definitely gonna be on the PTR to see how it pans out, but if the last FP change is anything to go by it's going to be hard times for healers.
Nerfs like this are a gift that keeps on giving, the better your gear gets the more you lose.

[Chamenas]

I'm going to fall below 30k health when I worked so hard to get above it and remain uncrittable with decent avoidance stats. That hurts a lot.

Lose ~900 armor I think, which doesn't bother me as much to be honest. It's the Icebound Fortitude change I don't like.

[zacsafus]

The way to calculate health:

(Stam - 20)*10 + 20 + 8121 = Total health

Using the stamina you have. In Frost Pres we currently multiply that total health by 1.10, and as Blood our Stamina is multiplied by 1.06.

In the next patch, that Stam factor is being reduced to 1.03 from Vot3W, and instead of multiplying our total health in Frost Pres, we'll add another 1.06 factor to the stamina. So using your unbuffed, out of Frost Pres numbers right now, your new health will be:

(1.03 x 1.06 x Stam - 20) x 10 + 20 + 8121 = *3.2*Total Health

Armor we'll be losing 5% from our gear, not including bonus armor (necks, rings, trinkets, enchants, and the additional value on pieces that have a green armor value).

So yeah, for me I'll be losing over 1100 armor (~1% dmg reduction, 4% of my current value), and 2600 health (7% of my current total), before buffs. It hurts since it's just pure nerf, but with time I'm sure the crying will stop so I can not feel crushed.

I take some solace in the fact that prof buffs are getting bumped and epic gems are being released. I may lose while the other tanks gain but if I'm lucky I can break even or better on my current survival values, somewhat.

I find this working to be wrong :S i dont know if its just me but when i pop in a fixed stam, eg 2500 i get a higher total health from the 3.2 health variant 0.o. I this maths is correct, (also given that ive tried working out the health putting brackets everywhere possible, and every varriant) then i seems Dks are gtting a boost from base stam, thus total health. I know this is not true so im wodering if the methods above are correct?

[Satorri]

we'll have higher stam and lower health. 3% stam = 3% health before buffs, so going from +10% health and +6% stam to +6% stam and +3% stam is a loss. I haven't really thought out what raid buffs will do to that.

Are you comparing to your current health in frost pres or your current health out?

My numbers:
(Vot3W) (stam) (base) (Frost pres)
Current = [[(1.06*2408)-20]*10+20+8121]*1.10 = 36,812
(Frost Pres) (Vot3W) (stam) (base)
3.2 Health = [(1.06*1.03*2408)-20]*10+20+8121 = 34,232


2586 health flew out the window. =(

But let's see what happens with raid buffs.
Imp GotW = +52 stam and +2% stam
Imp Fort = +215 stam
Kings/Sanc = +10% stam
Imp Commanding Shout/Blood Pact = +1729 health

So,
Current = [[1.10*1.06*1.02*(2408+267)-20]*10+20+8121+1729]*1.10 = 45,633

3.2 Health = [1.10*1.06*1.03*1.02*(2408+267)-20]*10+20+8121+1729 = 42,439

So in raid buffs I'll drop 3194 bealth, which is just shy of 7% (6.999%).

Hurty to say the least, to make up the difference I'll need ~320 more stamina to reach the value I have right now.

[Masterkiller]

Satorri thanks for the breakdown. It helped me create a spreadsheet to work all the numbers out. One question though, why the -20 and +20? I see it's so that it doesn't get multiplied but don't understand why. Also, I'm guessing 8121 is base health? Thanks.

[Esch]

The first 20 stamina only add 1 point, not 10. The -20 is to remove that stamina, with the +20 being purely hitpoints added back into the total. Satorri corrected an error of mine, and pointed out that quirk.

[Satorri]

Actually Jere helped adjust something on that for me.

8121 is in fact the base health, but it's the first 18 Stam, as Esch described, that only gives you 1 hp each.

So take your naked/clothed stamina (after % buffs, mind you) and subtract 18 off of that. Each point of stam there gives you 10 health each. Then add 18 back in for the 18 hp you got from the first 18 stam.

[Masterkiller]

Thanks guys. So would the calculation look like this currently on live?
(Vot3W) (stam) (base) (Frost pres)
Current = [[(1.06*2408)-18]*10+18+8121]*1.10 = 36,832


also, i've googled but cant find the formula for determining warrior or paly health. Any places to look?

[Vlad]

Unbuffed

3.1.3
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2109/beforej.jpg

3.2
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9176/aftery.jpg

[Satorri]

Check out WoWwiki.com. Search for Base Health. They have a table, by class, at level 80.

=) And the formula looks right.


Yeah Vlad. On live, current setup, I have 37.1k health unbuffed in Frost Pres. I went on the PTR, fixed all my jeweler gems, replaced all my blue gems with epics, and I sit at 35.3k health. Makes me sad, but at least I didn't drop below 35k I was so happy to pass that point. Heh, vanity.