+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 61

Thread: What is the heck is proprioception??

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3
    Ahh ok, I was confused as to what the problem was with ESDF + Alt, then I realized I don't have the ALT problem using an MS Natural keyboard... the ALT is easily under my thumb. I just tried it on a flat keyboard and, yeah, I can see how ALT anything would suck. Maybe the type of keyboard some come into play when considering keybinds.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Absolutely, I should re-emphasize that the more specific info I posted above was from my personal setup, keyboard, habits, hand-size, and experiences.

    Every aspect of your personal situation will make this a very personal experience. Maybe you play guitar or piano so you're comfortable or even used to making some hand shapes other people would be pained to produce. Maybe you have an ergonomic keyboard, or a 14 button mouse, or a gamepad, or maybe you play on a joystick. =)

    And, to Irat, well said Kaze! We have an advantage that many of the controllers (keyboard, mouse, etc) are already ergonomically designed. That said, looking at how you design your keybinds can make life easier. It's all well and good to use modifiers a lot, I do, but I found early on that control+Q (ScS/Oblit), control+F (DS), and control+E (deathgrip) were starting to hurt my pinky because of how I was pressing the control key (namely with the outside edge of the finger instead of with the pad). I had nasty muscle cramps and some pain for a while, so I had to fix my muscle habits so I didn't do that to myself any more (pain is a useful tool for adjusting these muscle memory habits, not that I'd recommend including that voluntarily...).

    Just because it has become muscle memory does not mean it is good for you, as with Kaze's example of people having horrible posture (speaking of which, depressing to me that Chrysler seems to have takent to designing cars that support people's bad posture and are uncomfortable to sit in if you have good posture) out of habit. You may also get warnings, like I did, of less ideal habits, though some may just be subtle enough that it takes a good long time to become aware of. How many people here rest their wrists on a desk or hard surface while they're typing on their keyboard? Carpal tunnel inflamation waiting to happen there. Add for further complication those readers who are still teens or early 20s. At that age your body is at its most resilient so it could be dealing with minor fatigue more rapidly than you can really become aware of it, but as you get older you will start to find your bad habits start hurting or actually becoming the root of debillitating conditions.
    Last edited by Satorri; 06-23-2009 at 06:08 AM.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    168
    Ermoki, instead of Tab I use the mouse wheel to cycle through targets since it can quickly and easily cycle in both directions. A precision mouse with a stiff wheel makes it a little more precise. I use Ctrl + Mousewheel to zoom the camera in and out.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    7
    Good stuff, It made me rethink my own keybinds. And on the topic of nerve damage, don't forget the other nerve, the one that deals with the outermost 2 fingers(well finger and a half), I had some damage to it for an unknown region and that made any computer use out of the question for a couple of weeks.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by Forklift View Post
    As ESDF, you gain Q and A, but you lose Ctrl1, Ctrl2, Ctrl3, Shift~, Shift3, and Alt+everything. It's not worth it; I found out the hard way.
    Yep very true but the bigger benefit for me is the little dot on the F key which guides my hand back to my movement keys.

    By doing that I have added - H,N, M, ~, Y, X, Z, F1-4 to my bindings and find it doesnít slow me down at all. Granted I cant press them while moving but even on WSDA I couldnít press Cntl/SHFT+(X) while moving effectively but that just changes what I bind with them and Iím am much more naturally inclined to press single keys then multiples.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2
    Personally i have a Logitch mouce with alot of buttons on it(like fast scroll up/down prev/next web page buttons). I have in the software programmed each button to be a f7-f12 click, since i never use those in game.
    Now in wow i bind my 6 most used & importent abilities to these mouse buttons that leaves my left hand free to use the normal arrow key's + num pad keys (for aditional key bindings). So i can move + taunt, shield slam, devastate, shield block, Shield bash, revenge. without having to move my hands. TC demo conc charge /target last target. are some of the things i have bound to my num keypad. they are all easy to reach and best of all you are more comfortable and can change seating position easy.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    17
    I wish I read an article like this back in 2004...

    Anyways I have recently started switching up my key bindings to be more efficient, and I am doing this while still leveling so I start the re-learning process before I do anything serious. Q and E are no longer strafing and the A and D keys are now. I have to say having Q and E available for abilities now makes a world of difference. I am still getting used to the slightly different movement keys and I have fallen a few times to my death… I am learning to steer with my mouse better too and I can already to the jump spin move decently.

    In general I have moved core abilities around to make them more accessible, and moved less used ones to either a shift modified key or a key further from the “home”. Fortunately for me I have long fingers and I have a lot of options on what is close to my "home". I am also only using one modifier which is shift. I have used the Logitech software which came with my mouse to bind this to my left thumb button on the mouse. This helped me remove alot of awkward key combinations. I may add CTRL to one of the other buttons again but for now the shift key has given me enough options.

    I almost have the setup the way I like it, but I think I may need to change a few key bindings to make them a bit more accessible. I don't have T bound to anything yet and my long fingers could reach it easily. I also have ~ set to "autorun" at the moment but I think I will change that as well, maybe to some sort of "panic button" The ~ is very accessible to me and I should make better use of this.

    The next thing I want to do is next is get a mouse with a couple more buttons so I can control my movement and camera better. Other than that, including the occasionally press of the wrong key I feel that I am moving in the right direction of becoming more efficient.


    One thing I would like to touch on while doing this, and playing in general, is I make sure to stretch my hands and arms often. I have a few exercises that aid in keeping my hands nimble. A lot of these exercises are based on tai chi chuan and are really good in general for anyone who uses and mouse and keyboard often.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Heh, ut oh, you busted out the Tai Chi...


    I never really ask as it's normally quite off topic, but are there (m)any tai chi students in the crowd?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    4,409
    I think it's awesome that you call it proprioception. That's exactly what I called it like 5 months ago before I read this. I'd heard the word in a podcast and thought it was a cool idea, and then realized that it applies to extensions of the self too, like in gaming. When I said it to my guildmates of course they all just looked at me funny, even when I explained it to them.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    4,409
    The Podcast episode was called Where am I? and it was an episode of RadioLab.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Nice necromancy. =) I had just about forgotten this post.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    4,409
    It was referred to in another post I was reading, which caused me to read it. Not deliberate necromancy per se.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    27
    Well, it's funny because I just changed all my keybindings except space (jump) one month ago, in the very logic of this huge but brillant post that I only discover now. I used my old keybindings for years, and it was quite a traumatism to switch for brand new ones. At the begining, I was back a noob tank, even in 5 men dungeons. Now I think I still only slightly outperform my precedent state, but the long-tought design of my new keybindings may certainly shine better in the future, as I'll acquire more automatisms. I have to testimony that the first 2 weeks cap is really hard to pass when modifying so much keybindings : I almost lost courage and thought seriously to go back to my old ones. Happily I did not.

    My new directions are the central YGHJ keys (using an AZERTY keyboard)? G and J are straffs. My actions are distributed around those buttons in a logic associating the usefullness of the technic and the accessibility of the keybinding in regard to those of directions. My two main survival CDs are linked on two very accessible special buttons of the mouse. The wheel is linked with select next/precedent target. The total result is really appreciable. Besides, I confess the large use of macros (not that bad IMO), including the evil macroted HS, having unsuccessfully tested the manual HS managment with the wheel button, as recommanded by some serious tankspotters.

    Anyway, I have to recall this powerfull tip : if you intend to change your keybindings, especially those of directions, do not forget to use "patafix" or whatever may be called in english that sort of yellow or blue non-etable gum usefull to stick posters and photos on walls without pin. Put some on the main keys you want to use, it will be a decisive help for your fingers to master the new positioning. And it's reversible, though quite hard to rip out.
    Last edited by Aradril; 12-11-2009 at 10:01 AM.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,405
    I've been showed this shock just yesterday: Changing from a normal keyboard to a n52 pad. I redesigned my UI so the n52 pad's bindings would have the same layout on the screen, and spent a good while training it. Oh man how often we miss those things! XD
    The plus side is that I have the whole weekend to dedicate, and the pattern between what it used to be and what it is(small blocks of 4 binds) is roughly the same. The biggest issue will be learning to move iwth the d-pad and jumping with a new key (the second one from the first row!), and relearning where the abilities I do click(o hai Army of the Dead, bai blessings) stay, though those, being irrelevant from an ergonomic standpoint, are laid handily on corners and places easy to reach taking as a base the position the mouse usually is during combat: the middle-left of the screen, where both the raid frames and the mob plates are!

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Ha, I use the n52te, but I refuse to move with the d-pad. I just bound that to other spells.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Ha, I use the n52te, but I refuse to move with the d-pad. I just bound that to other spells.
    I have some knowledge for using the pad for movement since I pulled tanking ulduar with a ps2 controller

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    minnesota aka southern canada
    Posts
    2,184
    I will admit, Key binds on the keyboard I was never able to get the hang of. I tried it but I just never had the patience to remember all the setups I designed.

    The two that eventually worked for me was I set up my bars like the keyboard. so skills would line up with the keys required to use them.

    Later when I upgraded to a speed pad (best thing I ever did) I did the same and arranged my bars based on the speed pads configuration. Made the learning curve shorted quite a bit.
    This also helps if I am away for a bit of using multiple toons. A glance at my bars will re orient me to my key binds and they flow from there.

    Great post satorri, I look forward to forcing it upon my guildies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler View Post
    I'm on a shark

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Nice necromancy. =) I had just about forgotten this post.
    Good threads never die.
    Roll with the punches.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    4

    Keybinding Example

    Very nice thread. I believe that in large part I too have "become one with my toon." I rarely have to "think" about the controls. I equate my keybindings to something much like "touch typing." I don't have to think about where the keys are located. I simply think about the words I wish to type and my mind/body makes my fingers hit the correct keys to spell those words. My game play has become much the same. I think of the action I wish to take and my finger automatically, without conscious thought, hits the correct keys. Anyway....

    Since there seems to be quite a bit of discussion about specific keybinds, I thought some of you might enjoy this post I made for my guildies that were interested in how I tank with my warrior.

    I've found the mouse to be the best way to move. The keyboard just doesn't have the flexibility and speed that the mouse has for movement. So, about the only time I use the keyboard for movement is going in reverse. The opposite is also true...clicking with the mouse is far inferior (at least for tanking) than using keybinds.

    The Friends of Old Guild; Zanzibarg's Tanking Hot Keys

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    101
    I personally use WSQE for movement ( forward,back, strafe left, strafe right).
    I feel you left some important keys that are easy reachable from WASD, etc, being: `, and tab. I've unbound tab targeting and made it Blood Tap, and have ` as Dark Command.
    I've got Z bound to rune tap, X to AMS and C to Mind Freeze (Lady Deathwhisper/Jaraxxus). I've not thought about binding extra mouse buttons though- I'll think of this.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts