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Thread: Ulduar Hodir (Hard Mode)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by huhcio View Post
    1. how do you mark the mages ? as it is impossible to mark them while tombed- you macroed their name or have someone assined to mark them ? (if macro, please copy paste :P)
    2. do you only free the mages and rely on them getting outher NPCs out, or not ? if yes, will it work on 10 man?
    3. we run a melee heavy group (usually 2 rogues, ret, 2 hunters another rogue/feral kitty/ warrior, with 1 tank and 2 healers on 10 man- any suggestions bout positioning ?^^)
    A simple macro that is just /tar targetname should work fine.

    Just break all the ice blocks yourself, though don't go out of your way to break priest npcs in 10 man.

    melee heavy might be a bit harder, but 2 ranged should be enough. The positioning in the video will be fine.

  2. #42
    /tar miss and /tar siss will help you mark them.
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  3. #43
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    This strat definitely works on 10man. imo it's a good approach in general regardless of setting.

  4. #44
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    I see a lot of people in this thread managing to pull off as much as 15k dps and almost always at least 10k, but in both 25 man and 10 man, I don't think I've ever reached anything higher than 6k dps.
    In a 10 man Hodir kill, I once hit 6.5k and OMGWTFed thinking I was amazing until I read this thread.
    I normally stand by the cozy fire that the mage puts out and then simply stand and dps the boss, sometimes moving into a beam of light if there is one in range of the cozy fire. Should I be prioritizing the beam of light over the fire? What about the storm cloud (I still haven't quite figured out how that works yet, either.)?
    Any advice would be much appreciated.

  5. #45
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    well stormclouds increase damage caused by your crits so if you crit alot (and if you're a mage or boomkin you prolly do) its definitly good to get near someone with the stormcloud buff. just be aware you will overtake to tank quickly on threat so you'll have to be careful.

  6. #46
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    Ive seen alot of threat related questions and which spec's is optimal, and how many FrR pieces ppl use. I used a full Survivability spec no UA or DW as well as wearing 3 pieces of FrR. I rarely had threat issues i found that well timed taunts make threat a non-issue. The "MAIN POINT" that makes threat none existent is taunt, When used during Flash Freeze you can gain all the threat needed to coast right to the end of the fight.

    How to do this you have to be comfortable with your DPS usually i can expect my mages to hit a nice streak with the storm buff and i told them when Flash Freeze is coming and if they have the storm buff to just burn like no tommorrow and by the end of they are at 150-170%+ (depending on where the "safe" mound is and how much threat i had at the time) and 1 second before Flash Freeze drops you taunt and you gain all the threat from that mage and the extra 30%.

    So now with a single well placed taunt you have just secured the thread lead that will make sure no one will ever pull for the entirity of the fight ( even if ppl get close you can use this trick again) while keeping a High survivability spec as well as wearing 3 FrR Piece which give you the most survivability which i find is what you need when dropping more healers for DPS to make the required DPS benchmark.
    The answer is user error

  7. #47
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    Hmm, it hadn't occured to me to try taunting during a flash freeze, but I suppose it should work then. Taunts are definitely a huge boon to threat, I actively encouraged our mages to go all out and simply was watching for the very quick taunts, afterwards, rather than specifically during flash freezes. You should be pulling 10-11k tps most of the fight regardless, but the taunts will probably still be necessary for most tanks.

  8. #48
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    so tried this positioning on 25 man and it seems that if you have alot of melee they tend to get targeted by icicles alot making it extremely tough on melee i mean you can avoid them but with them coming one after the other it gets tough to tell the old ones from the new ones.,

  9. #49
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    For those of you interested in 10 man info here is a wws from our 10 man kill yesterday (note he was casting when we pushed him over).

    Wow Web Stats

    The boomchicken & shaman usually heal and I usually tank, but to do this we needed to go with a single tank, single healer, and the ret pally (me) getting (most of) the dispells so the priest could focus on making us not die.

    We deal with agro by letting the tank get the lightning buff too, though usually just the first one.

  10. #50
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    Tried the flash freeze taunt btw, wasn't working. Tried it many times just cause I could to verify.

  11. #51
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    good video but I think it's lacking in the healing department. Almost everyone who sees it goes "they used 3 healers?" What's the trick, increasingly I find the only way to do hard modes is to take as little healers as possible, but there's almost no info on healing tips when running such low numbers. We tried hodir with 5 or 6 and healers kept saying it was too intensive to even go down to 4. We've been also working on steelbreaker last for a couple of weeks consistently getting through to the 3rd tank rotation but with 6 healers which is a lot. Again healers going there's no way they can do it with 5-4. What's the trick there? maybe your healers can add some input to the videos

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bludwork
    Almost everyone who sees it goes "they used 3 healers?" What's the trick, increasingly I find the only way to do hard modes is to take as little healers as possible, but there's almost no info on healing tips when running such low numbers
    You use mitigating cooldowns to lessen the damage taken by the raid. Aura Mastery and Divine Sacrifice (pretty sure this is mentioned in the video) as well as anyone's personal mitigation skills, such as Feint, AMS/IBF, Barkskin, mages spec'd for resistance + frost ward, etc.

    My guild will pop bloodlust during the 2nd frozen blows as well to help with healing as well as DPS, and your healers should be making use of starlight for faster heals as well.

  13. #53
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    Here are the highlights I got from this video and reading the various replies up to this point on this thread and which I added to our guild website:

    Initial Pull
    • Misdirect & tricks of trade etc to help tank build initial threat lead
    • Break out NPCs in order of
    1. mages
    2. shaman
    3. moonkin
    • Once they are out, mark the mages so that they can quickly be identified to immediately be broken out after flash freezes
    Basics still apply
    • Don't get hit by Flash Freeze
    • Don't get hit by Icicles
    • Don't get hit by anything avoidable
    • Move to take off the debuff if not by a toasty fire
    Positioning
    • Video they opt to keep Hodir stationary to control NPC location in the corner and allow ranged to maximize DPS and easily utilize starlight at all times. If we take this approach we would initially keep him near the melee breaking out NPCs for aoe DPS and then kite to the back right corner.
    • Not sure if that would work best or if we would prefer to constantly kite him to starlight allowing melee to benefit as well, something we need to figure out for our selves
    Flash Freezes
    • After the initial pull only break out the mage NPCs after each flash freeze and assign two groups of ranged DPS to do this as quickly as possible
    • Once the mages are freed they will quickly free all the remaining NPCs
    • MT tip, have the mages/locks/casters go ALL OUT right when Flash Freeze is coming and when it has 1 second to dropping off taunt to gain a huge threat lead
    Important points
    • Ranged should take advantage of fires ONLY IF it does not impede their DPS.
    • Ranged should ALWAYS be in starlight
    • Stormcloud buff from NPC shaman are the most important buff in the encounter. Only 6 people affected by it at a time and all individual cooldowns should be used when buffed with it. Try to keep ranged separated into two groups in different starlights, so if a healer gets the buff they would run to the closest ranged group to buff them
    Point of no return
    • Call off DPS if unable to reach this damage benchmark in order to make the hardmode achiev.
      • 55-60% @ 1.5 minute marker
      • If not 20% or below @ 35 second marker call a wipe
    Raid Comp
    • TankSpot video only used 3 healers to maximize DPS. Healers keep in mind the fight will only be 3 minutes so they can time their mana usage accordingly.
    Tips
    • Save Bloodlust/Heroism for the last 50 seconds so we know where we stand in the fight and can wipe it if needed
    • Use speed potions when initially breaking out the NPCs on the pull.
    • When only 35 seconds left on the timer, do not break any NPCs out after flash freeze, just burn Hodir.
    • We already downed Hodir hard mode in our 10 man the other day without any issues really but our DPS was fairly substantial with even me as the OT switching to my off-spec DPS gear doing 6.1k dps in a 10 man. For 25 and the various buffs available, should have lowest DPSers all well over 5k chasing the high end caster mages/locks/etc up around 11-13k.
    If you disagree with anything or if I left anything out please feel free to point it out

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdog View Post
    The "MAIN POINT" that makes threat none existent is taunt, When used during Flash Freeze you can gain all the threat needed to coast right to the end of the fight.

    How to do this you have to be comfortable with your DPS usually i can expect my mages to hit a nice streak with the storm buff and i told them when Flash Freeze is coming and if they have the storm buff to just burn like no tommorrow and by the end of they are at 150-170%+ (depending on where the "safe" mound is and how much threat i had at the time) and 1 second before Flash Freeze drops you taunt and you gain all the threat from that mage and the extra 30%.
    Just wanted to see if I understand you correctly, you are saying to have casters go all out just before flash freeze and then after it hits and 1 second before it wears off taunt? What 30% extra are you referring to, is that a mechanic of flash freeze? Thanks a bunch, this will be a great help

  15. #55
    Aggro basics:
    Player in 10 yard range of the boss (all melee always, casters if they come close) have to exceed 10% of tank threat to pull him of.
    Player outside of melee range of the boss have to make 130%+ threat (or 30% more) to gain aggro.

    You can easily let mage/lock/hunter to exceed your aggro by 10-20% and to climb the aggro ladder by taunting... however you need smart people here.

    On hodir during the flesh freeze cast - your mages and warlocks if they are positioned good (not in melee range, have (almost) all buffs, safe from freezing) they can go all out since hodir wont move during casting at all and wont change target. As soon as cast finishes - they have to stop whatever they are doing and tank need to taunt... All aggro they made during that time is now transfered to tank but tank need to exceed that by 10% now during taunt timer (or they use Aggro reduce abilities).

    Teaming and Timing. Very important. They have to stop as soon as they know that hodir is back to regular fight. They have to know their cycle so after going all out they have to use their aggro reducers.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  16. #56
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    Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously

  17. #57
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    just did 10 man , 2mins 48sec

    rogue 9063.3
    rogue 8051.4
    Fury warrior 6236.8
    Warlock 6492.6
    Warlock 5884.1
    Enh Shaman 5954.9
    Frost mage 4484.6
    Prot Warrior 2019.4
    Resto Druid
    Resto Shaman

    i kited hodir around the beams for melee since we have a melee buffed group.

    We tried stationary tanking like what cider did in the vid in 25man (non hard mode), healers prefer that a lot more, but melee do a lot less dps

  18. #58
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    Concern with that is your locks/mage only doing 4-7dps when they could be doing 10k+. We toyed with some different approaches in 10man last night and it does seem that ranged can pump out insane numbers if it is kept stationary in the corner like the video and although it limits the melee dps a bit the bonus to ranged and healers seemed worth it.

    Prolly varies a lot based on group comp, I am still a bit undecided.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously
    Not Hodir specific. That's why in your Omen or threat mods you'll see mobs stay on you even if you've been crested.

    Quote Originally Posted by shez View Post
    We tried stationary tanking like what cider did in the vid in 25man (non hard mode), healers prefer that a lot more, but melee do a lot less dps
    That all depends on where ice blocks drop.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Great explanation, I wasn't aware of the 10%/30% aggro mechanics thanks a bunch. Is that a basic principle that applies to all fights or is that a Hodir specific thing? I am surprised I haven't noticed more on that previously
    Yes... just if you didn't got clear - if mage pops mirror images he don't pull aggro even on 131% so key is to have good mage that pops mirrors on 130% and tell you that... and then he go all out and tell you again on last 1-2 sec of duration of mirror images - taunt then and you wont have problem on hodir at all.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

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