H Naxx Geared DK Tank, having threat problems
I have been tanking for quite a while now and i still really enjoy it. recently tho i have noticed that my threat hasn't scaled at all with my current gear. With my dps now gearing up from beginning ulduar and still doing naxx everyweek there is certain times when i am losing threat or having my butt ridden for almost all of the fight. i never used to have a problem but recently its been getting worse. I have a pretty standard tank spec and my gear is at a 2231 gear score on wow-heroes. here is my link, any suggestions would be awesome.
The World of Warcraft Armory
Gear looks fine. Your well over hit cap and soft expertise (almost hard expertise cap).
If you can, change your sigil. Your defense capped without it, so spend a few Valor Emblems and get the Sigil of Awareness Sigil of Awareness - Item - World of Warcraft
Any particular reason why you skipped over Black Ice? That boosts the dps on your Howling Blast and Frost Strike, which increases threat. Same with Glacier Rot.
Drop Virulence - your almost Hit capped without it, so it's not worth a single point, let alone two. I would drop Deathchill, as I find that's only good for initial agro for AoE pulls - if you need Deathchill to hold agro, chances are your DPS is going to pull agro later into the fight, anyways.
Merciless Combat is useless for Tanking - it only comes into affect at the end of a fight, and you need help for the whole thing.
Icy Reach is a horrible talent. It only works for the initial pull on bosses and then goes to waste. Use Death Grip, if you want to do a range pull or Unholy Command.
Hungering Cold - people like this, I don't. I depend on my HB too much during AoE pulls. If it's a CC fight (like most trash is in Ulduar25), I don't use HB. In my opinion, drop it.
I only put 4 points into Killing Machine. From what I read, the rank determines the proc/minute the talent has. So, rank 1 is 1/min, rank 2 is 2/min, etc. With four ranks, I get a proc every 15 seconds, as opposed to a proc every 12 seconds, but I get a free talent point.
So, if you take my advice, that frees you up with 8 talents. Which, go perfectly into Black Ice and Glacier Rot, which should fix your threat problems (your looking at a 30% dps increase for your frost spells).
My talents: The World of Warcraft Armory
Now, on to Glyphs.
If your frost tanking, Glyph of Howling Blast is a must. HB puts out as much damage as Obliterate (more if it crits) and procs with Rime. Having as many enemies frost fevered as possible is a must, to reduce damage done. This would take care of your Diesease Glyph and smiplify your rotation, since you won't be needing to cast Pestielnce as much.
Unbreakable Armor isn't great. The Glyph doesn't make it much better. I think unglyphed, I had it absorbing normal melee attacks from a Ulduar boss for about 1/4, and those are the light attacks. As well, Death and Decay isn't going to be a major agro holder. It's good for initial agro, but it's not going to work in the long wrong - it's too weak and takes up too many runes.
My opinion, replace Death and Decay and Unbreakable Armor glyphs with two of these three: Obliterate, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike. These three are your threat abilities. If you are going to hold an enemy's attention, these are the guys who are going to do it for you. You need to boost them up, if holding threat is a problem.
Personally, I'd take the points from Icy Reach and move them to 2 Handed Weapons Specialization; then I'd move points from Hungering Cold and Virulence into Glacier Rot. I've found HC is not that useful for tanking and the cooldown on Dark Command is pretty quick so instead of freezing, taunt back into DnD. Also, pull everything into DnD - multi and single targets; sends threat off the charts initially, then slap on a disease.
hmm thanks guys
Yea I just want to say thanks, I have taken into consideration as to what yall were saying and am gonna change my spec accordingly. i was so used to being an unholy tank that when i switched to frost because of the nerf to bone shield (</3) that i didnt correctly read most of the tool tips on the talents ><. i probably should have done that. thanks a lot guys this should help out bunches
We'll just to make you feel happier, they're nerfing Frost to reduce the armor bonus from 80% to 60%. I wish they'd just leave us DK's alone. Go nerf the Rogues.
Howling Blast (and the glyph) is really only useful for trash tanking and is a poor use of runes on single target, you'll get better use out of simply doing IT > PS, then you'll have two diseases up and Ob will hit harder.
Originally Posted by VerticalEvent
For my money Glyph of Frost Strike, Obliterate, and Rune Strike are your single target threat glyphs.
VIne, that maybe true, but Howling Blast crits harder then Obliterate.
Obliterate crits for 1.5 x damage, while Howling Blast crits for 2x
Besides, casting the extra PS wastes a potential Obliterate/Howling Blast. With just Frost Fever up, my Obliterate hits about as hard as my Howling Blast on a single target. With Blood Fever, it should hit 1.125 times harder. In order to make up the dps wasted by not casting an extra Obliterate or Howling Blast, I would have to squeeze in 8 Obliterates before blood fever ran out, and that's if we assume there will be no crits.
You'll only get 4 obliterates in, before having to refresh your dieseases.
IT > PS > Obliterate > BS > BS.
(Frost Fever is now up to about 10 seconds at this point) Ob > Ob > Ob (12 seconds)
At this point, your fevers are running out, unless you specced into Epidemic, in which case, you'll get two more Obliterates in and 2 BS before the dieases are gone.
Originally Posted by VerticalEvent
I'm assuming with the glyph of howling blast and your argument against plague strike, you're not casting IT either, but starting with a HB?
I think single target threat/dps would be higher from the classic rotation. Howling blast may do more dmg when it crits than Obliterate, but obliterate will crit much more often.
OB gains 3% crit from Annihilation, 15% crit from Rime.
And if you're going to do OB, you should have blood plague up. Besides you won't lose as much dps as you think by casting IT->PS vs HB. IT is pretty well buffed in a deep frost spec.
IT gains 15% dmg from Improved Icy Touch, 15% crit from Rime.
I would say use the classic IT->PS->OB->BS->BS->OB->OB->OB but use HB when rime or killing machine proc.
Alde, I'm not argruing against Obliterate, but the inclusion of Icy Touch and Plague Strike.
In both rotations, Obliterate is the key factor.
I probably should of posted the rotation of just Obliterates and Howling Blast
Howling Blast > Obliterate > Blood Strike > Blood Strike
Obliterate > Obliterate > Obliterate
Still the same number of Obliterates without lague Strike and Icy Touch, they just have less oomph because of one less diease on them, but Howling Blast's damage makes up for that.
And, I do believe, since I'm using one less global cool down, I'm getting an extra second every rotation (Icy Touch + Plague Strike = 1 second of Global VS HBs 0 second for both runes), which means, I do believe, get an extra rotation every 10 rotations (or, roughly every 100 seconds)
And, actually, I tend to open with Icy Touch, to get the inital Frost Fever up, to make my first HB hit a little harder.
Something not touched on..
Macro your Rune Strike into your abilities. I do not know if you press as many buttons, as often, as I do unholy tanking, but macroing in rune strike for all of my abilities really helped my threat. I also share the recommendation of Glyphs of Rune Strike and Frost Strike.
I'd check Elitist Jerks to see what their Frost tanking spec is and don't be afraid to use DnD for initial aggro. It can help
Originally Posted by Theotherone
I feel the same way....but Blizz is too busy makeing the rogues more OP to nerf them.
Jaeden: Good point. I forgot to mention the macro.
Here's the macro
#showtooltip Icy Touch
/cast !Rune Strike
/cast Icy Touch
Replace Icy Touch with another ability (I got a macro made for Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Frost Strike, Obliterate, and Howling Blast).
The "!" before Rune Strike does not let it to toggle - if you push the key twice, you'll turn on Rune Strike, and then turn it off before it can be fired off. As well, I got Rune Strike to go up first, since, for Frost Strike, I want Rune Strike to go off before Frost Strike, for the higher threat.