Paladin to DK tanking
Thanks for viewing this post and hopefully you will be able to help me.
I am a main tank for the Late Night Raiders of Us Haomarush DarthMalice, were a smallish progression guild working on ulduar content. We have been working on recruiting and finally have around 5-6 geared tanks but the 4 that are serious contenders are all Pallies. I have been frustrated with all of us rolling on the same gear (Block cap stuff, Last laugh, Wall of terror) and thought for diversification I would build up a DK tank to add a different spiel into our raid composition.
Background to the problem:
This is my toon DrFurious he has about 3 more weeks to raid 25 man Naxx until he's geared to begin the Ulduar 10 man transition. I recently ran a heroic H HOS to begin to learn my new spec (Frost) abilities and work on the mechanics of how to scale threat to the group of players I am playing with. So I ask most groups to go easy on the first few trash pulls then really begin to push threat so I can see how I work with them to retain it. So far no prob's in Frost only blood as a spec to keep threat high.
Yesterday's heroic was frustrating to a point, new healer to instance and we wiped alot, I really like the Brann Bronzebeard fight in HOS because it pushes any tank to know their cooldowns and use them smartly. It is to me a fun fight, needless to say we wiped on it 3 times. I think this is okay because we did not have dps over 2K, there were no huge dps there. After the heroic was over a dk in the group called me an idiot and said because I pushed 1275 dps in the fights I "bought" my toon. I was insulted but haveing raised this toon to 80 myself I told him he was an angry fella that needed to work on his emotional control. I thought it was over but he started spamming trade as kids will do, my guild came to my defense but thats drama and does not add to the real question and need for assistance.
Please evaluate my spec and let me know what you feel are strenghts and weaknesses. I have ran dps tests with our guild DK tank and I scale with him. I have the inevitable defeat for a main hand (Not fishing pole, working on raid mats for fish feasts, like a good tank).
My questions are what dps should I be producing?
I understand from Darky our guild DK tank I should use: IT or PS, BS,BS, OB,OB and hit RS every time its up or use FS if RS is not up.
I understand mitigation from a pallies perspective but what is optimal mitigation after Def Cap is reached? I dont want to stack worthless mitigation items that their value is essentially wasted with diminishing returns.
Any essential gear that is a must have from Naxx? I want the sand worn band and obviously a cloak but any best in slot recommendations are always helpful (yes I will read the gear posts in the forumn)
Lastly thanks for reading and thanks again if you offer advice, I appreciate it.
Let me just say that I am by no means the most experienced Tank
However, when Dual Spec came out, I really got into tanking on my paladin. Let me just say that Paladin is pretty idiot proof. 969 Rotation, great snap aggro and you can tank anything single target or AOE. No real spec issues to screw up. Idiot Proof.
Recently, I rerolled alliance to PvP with some friends, and I got designated as the PvE tank of the group. I dinged 80 two days ago. However, I have been researching.
Some things I noticed from your post.
1200 DPS seems VERY low to me. I am assuming that's single target, and not AOE. Because your AOE dps should be breaking 2k easy.
1200 DPS seems like its a rotation problem to me.
--- For Single Target: IT, PS, OB, BS, BS -> rotate OB and BS when necessary, refresh IT or PS when necessary (or Pest if you are glyphed for it). When you dump RP, dump FS because they will be about the only thing eating up for KM procs. Also bind, Runic Strike to BS and OB, this will help you unload RP when you are mashing keys. Armory me, you will will see that even in 2 day old blues, I am putting up more than 1200 single target.
--- For AOE: I have been using DnD, Grip, IT, PS, Pest, HB, BB (rotate). I found this rotation to be VERY clunky. It takes 3 GCD to get diseases up on all targets. I don't have that much time. It lacked snap aggro like my Pally used to have, and in fact, this made me pretty upset. Also waiting 30 seconds on DnD really irritated me, it made it feel overly clunky. Especially in the H HoS fight where I could only use it every other pack.
After reading these forums, I have decided to among other things (like change my spec) change my rotation. I am going to glyph HB. My New Rotation will be (DnD) > HB > BB only. I am going to drop PS and Pest out of the rotation in favor of bursting more damage up front. That way, I have better snap aggro.
Lastly, I would take a look at your spec. After reading up, I think I see some better specs out there. I personally am going 15/51/5.
I think points in Morbitity are a waste. You won't cast DC ever. DnD is nice in theory, but practically speaking: you wont drop it other than the start of fights.
Epidemic is slightly overrated with HB glyph and Glyph of Disease, should you have either
Scent of Blood seems like a bad choice, but apparently the tooltip is wrong. It procs 10 RP instead of 5. Additionally it has no cool down (is this 100% true) vs. the tooltip of 10sec. I am really excited to try this talent out, since It will mean a LOT more RP dumping of FS.
As far as gear, it seems pretty straightforward to me. Don't get anything with block or shieldblock, really only leaves you with one set of gear to get. Go for the overall best utilization of item level for what you need, be it Effective Health or Mitigation. Comes down to personal preference.
with your gear, you should NOT be wiping in ANY heroics.
Last edited by Palin; 06-01-2009 at 12:21 PM.
I agree about wiping, it was the healer first venture into H HOS, I understand her inexperience about where to stand avoiding lasers etc...
Thanks for the rotations, is the talent build listed anywhere?
Without Icy Touch
With Icy Talons
the one point in acclimation can pretty much be dumped anywhere (prolly Killing Machine if you need 5/5). I passed on blood of the north because the Frost rotation seems to not REALLY need death runes. For AOE, they are useless because BB isn't in BotN. For single Target, it lets your get 1 OB instead of 2 BS every other rotation. Seems counter intuitive to provide that, AND boost BS damage.
The real drawing point is FS damage, since its a major part of your DPS (30% from what I have read). However since I bind RS to pretty much everything, I RS dump a lot and FS only when im overloaded on RP. RS is better TPS. I am hoping Scent of Blood helps stack my RP even more.
DK has a lot of wiggle room for personal preference. I am not sure if I am going Icy Talons or not yet. I have to talk to my Warrior friend and see how much he wants to beg
Let me know how they work out for you.
Last edited by Palin; 06-01-2009 at 02:33 PM.
Okay respecced both to blood and frost for tanking and I will use both to see ho wit benefits in different situations, DPS improved greatly on the dummies! Thanks, damn near 2K on both specs. Did not take hysteria as I dont really see it as a tanking spec.
Bottom line good advice bud and I appreciate it.