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Thread: Ulduar Yogg-Saron

  1. #1
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    Ulduar Yogg-Saron







    Please note: The 25-man video primarily focuses on 25-man issues rather than the entire list of abilities or tactics used throughout the encounter. Please watch the 10-man video and Stratfu's video below to get the full picture!


    Yogg-Saron 10-man





    25-Man Notes
    We have a 25-man video coming out (with any luck) later this week which will detail many of the differences between 10-man and 25-man. The encounter is exponentially more difficult in a 25-man setting due to the sheer number of things that must be happening independently.

    Phase 1
    We chose to go with the strategy of tanking Guardians near the door and having two tanks ferrying them to Sara when they were below 30%. Normally, I tanked all of the adds myself and stay just outside the outer clouds so the other two tanks can Taunt off of me. I move the final Guardian to the middle for DPS to finish it off and one of the other tanks picks up any additional adds during phase transition.

    Standing on clouds spawns additional Guardians. We found that purposely spawning two additional Guardians worked well for our three-tank setup. The first would be DPS'ed and tanked down by our first ferry tank, the second by our second ferry tank, and the third by me. By the time the first had been killed in the middle by our ranged group assigned to it, he was ready to taunt mine off me as soon as it was ready. Doing this, I had to handle two adds at the beginning at one time, but had a very healthy threat lead by the time DPS got to mine so I could switch off.

    The reason for this is because we wanted to reduce the time we spent in phase 1 as much as possible. Since adds come slower at the beginning, spawning two additional adds was possible with our DPS. Spending less time gave us a smaller window of time in which we needed to worry about tank mind controls and helped the overall encounter timer a small bit.

    Tightly controlling the use of Taunt abilities made Phase 1 go a lot smoother for us. As much as possible, we use our Hunters to alternate misdirects to bring adds to me, and a Holy Paladin in the door group running Righteous Fury to attract uuncontrolled adds right through me so I can pick them up easily. We found that doing this eliminated the issue of ferry tanks randomly dropping aggro or losing aggro after a mind control.

    Ferry tank mind controls have been a pretty big but unavoidable hassle in many of our pulls. Guardians completely drop aggro when a tank is mind controlled and even with a quick dispel it can be difficult to get them back in a pinch.

    Mind controls on myself were also frustrating but somewhat easier to deal with. Because we wanted to control our taunts, I simply wouldn't taunt adds back onto me immediately after a mind control, instead letting them hit on whichever DPS had them at the time. Guardians are easy to heal through so long as the healers are aware that aggro has changed, and adds in the DPS group are often being DPSed very quickly anyway and will be brought out by a ferry tank quickly.


    Phase 2
    There are five important things to know about Phase 2 that will make learning this encounter a lot easier for your group.

    First: There are 10 portals for the portal phase in 25-man. There are three on the left, three on the right, three in the back, and one in the front. We stacked these with 9 DPS'ers, primarily Melee DPS & Hunters, and one healer (a Druid who could also debuff the Brain to help DPSers). We assigned exact portal locations and set up and practiced them in General Vezax' room.

    Second: Though counterintuitive, your portal team is far more important to what goes on outside of Yogg-Saron than the group that's actually killing adds outside of Yogg-Saron. The big breakthrough for us was realizing that killing all tentacles inside the portals within 20 seconds prevented some Crushers and Corruptors from spawning. We wasted a lot of time moving DPS outside of Yogg to handle tentacle spawns before realizing that simply killing the tentacles in the portals faster would make all the difference.

    Third: Constrictors can be broken with Ice Block from Mages and, more importantly, Blessing of Protection from Paladins. Paladins should be able to cover players all around Yogg-Saron when they are position for portals to prevent a loss of DPS that could prevent killing portal tentacles within 20 seconds.

    Fourth: Crushers are a lot more important than you might think, and a lot better targets to kill than their health suggests. Unlike prioritizing Corruptors, Crushers are stationary and benefit from allowing DOTs to fully tick as well as as more raid debuffs during the time they are up. In other words, DPS is far more efficient on these than constantly running to Corruptors. When we tried to ignore Crushers we found ourselves with 3-4 Crushers going into Phase 3 and handicapped while one of our tanks was occupied trying to break channeling of Diminished Power on all of them. That's not to say Corruptors should be ignored -- we switch off to hit Corruptors if they're nearby and have already taken some damage before heading to a Crusher on the other side of Yogg-Saron.

    Fifth: Curse of Doom and especially Apathy should be interrupted! As a Warrior tank, I normally handle second Crusher spawns if one comes up when another is being finished off, but only until the Feral Druid gets to the new Crusher -- then I immediately go and find a Corruptor that's still up to interrupt and stun. Shaman are amazing for this duty as well due to the quick availability of interrupts. Have a few players to handle these until Melee and Ranged can burn them down.


    Phase 3
    I won't speak too much in depth here because we haven't finished Phase 3 of Yogg-Saron as of this post (I'll edit this later). I'll just note that there are two unique strategies to dealing with Phase 3 that we've observed and both have brought successful clears by premiere world guilds.

    The first is keeping Immortal Guardians directly in front of Yogg-Saron and having Melee DPS burn them down as they come in. Attacks such as Whirlwind will continue to hit Yogg-Saron by doing this.

    The second is keeping Immortal Guardians away from Yogg-Saron and having ranged and healers always facing away from Yogg-Saron (and towards the adds) while burning them down. This leaves melee DPS always on Yogg-Saron. This is a bit safer if there are DPS shortages since the add will be out of range of healing Yogg-Saron if he successfully finishes a cast.

    Phase 3 is about finding a perfect balance of who is on Yogg and who is on Immortal Guardians. They must be killed quickly, but there is a very real enrage timer to watch out for as well.

    Good luck!




    Movies & written information reposted with permission. Click here to view Stratfu's Yogg-Saron page to see their full written strategy!





    StratFu Encounter Outline
    The Keepers
    The Four Keepers Aid you in your fight against Yogg-Saron. Once you ask for their assistance, you will gain the following buffs upon engaging the boss.

    In terms of ease of doing kills with fewer keepers helping, Thorim is certainly the hardest to skip.

    Mimiron

    Speed of Invention: Increases all damage done by 10% and movement speed by 20%.
    Destabilization Matrix: Mimiron shoots a beam at the Phase 2 tentacles that reduces their attack speed by 100% and their casting speed by 300%.

    Freya

    Resilience of Nature: Increases damage done by 10% and healing recived by 20%
    Sanity Well: Regenerates sanity by standing under the beam.

    Thorim

    Fury of the Storm: Increases all damage done by 10% and total HP by 20%
    Titanic Storm: Shoots a bolt of energy that will kill the weakened versions of otherwise “Immortal” creatures.

    Hodir

    Fortitude of Frost: Increases damage done by 10% and reduces damage taken by 20%
    Hodir’s Protective Gaze: Hodir will save a player who takes otherwise fatal damage by putting them in a block of ice. This ability has a cooldown.


    Phase 1 Abilities

    Guardians
    Shadow Nova: The Guardian blows up when it dies, causing damage to any nearby units (including Sara)
    Dark Volley: AoE Shadow Volley (interruptible) Places a debuff on everyone that reduces healing by 25%
    Dominate Mind: Temporary Mind Control effect (dispellable)

    Sara

    Sara’s Fervor: Increases a friendly target’s damage by 20% but also increases damage taken by 100%.
    Sara’s Blessing: Heals a friendly target for 27-33k, but causes 60k shadow damage over 20 sec.
    Sara’s Anger: Inflicts 12.5k shadow damage every 3 sec, but increases physical damage by 12k.


    Phase 2 Abilities

    Sara
    Brain Link: Links two raid members together, dealing damage and deceasing sanity as long as they are 20+ yards away from each other. The link between the two will turn from red to yellow when it is safe. This effect will break if one member enters a portal.
    Psychosis: Inflicts 7.5k shadow damage and reduces sanity.
    Death Ray: Shoots a stream of energy that tracks a target dealing 20k nature damage per 0 seconds (RUN AWAY)
    Malady of the Mind: Inflicts 5k shadow damage and causes 4 seconds of horror and reduces sanity. It will try to chain to another raid member with in 10 yards at the end of the 4 seconds.

    Crusher Tentacles

    Diminish Power: Cast on the entire raid (including the portal groups), it reduces damage done by 20% and stacks up to 4 times (one per alive crusher.)

    Corruptor Tentacles

    All these abilities are dispellable.
    Curse of Doom: Deals 20k damage after 12 seconds. (Curse)
    Apathy: Reduces attack and casting speed as well as movement speed by 60% for 20 sec. (Magic)
    Black Plague: Periodic stun that lasts 2 seconds with a 24 second debuff duration. (Disease)
    Draining Poison: 3.5k damage and 1400 mana drained every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. (Poison)

    Portals

    Lunatic Gaze: deals shadow damage and decreases sanity.
    Induce Madness: The brain channels Induce Madness, starting with the spawning of portals and lasting for 60 seconds. If anyone is still in the portal after the 60 seconds have passed and the channel is complete, they are immediately driven insane and mind controlled by Yogg.


    Phase 3 Abilities

    Empowering Shadows: Cast by Yogg on one of the Immortals, this powerful HoT heals them rapidly.
    Lunatic Gaze: Deals damage and reduces sanity (a stronger version of the Phase 2 ability)


    The Fight

    There are three phases:
    Phase 1, the raid is together up top and fights the Guardians of Yogg-Saron to force him to appear.
    Phase 2 the raid splits into two groups, one group staying up top to fight his tentacles and the other taking portals into his mind to attack his brain directly.
    Phase 3, the final phase, the raid is reunited and work together to kill him.
    UI/ADDON INFORMATION:
    Lore's UI (10 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/...lore-s-ui.html
    Ciderhelm's UI (25 Man Videos): http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f211/...formation.html
    Please post any questions about UI/Addon's in their respective threads and not in this thread
    Last edited by Aliena; 01-25-2010 at 08:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    Can't wait for this one!!

    Guild progressing nicely through 10man so hopefully will put this movie to good use soon.

  3. #3
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    Omg!! U gusy rock

  4. #4
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    There seem to be two variant strats for phase 1. In some vids I've watched, the majority of the group hang by the door and there is a second smaller group in the middle - new adds are taken down to low health by the door team then taunted and finished in the middle. The other strat (and the one featured in the 10 man vid) is to simply have the raid fight around the middle and avoid the clouds.

    We started working on the 10 man this weekend and have been discussing the relative merits of both approaches. Are there any specific tips for making the strat illustrated in the vid work (ie. how to position to minimise risk of standing in clouds, etc).

  5. #5
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    I have a question , what was your setup for this fight ? how many tanks and healers ?

  6. #6
    Clouds rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise around Yogg-Saron. With that in mind is not that hard to avoid them.

    At 1:45 in that video the tank makes a very bad decision, trying to avoid the cloud running in the same direction as the cloud. He almost spawns an extra add.

    Great video as always.
    Follow the Moeko Principle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fr0d0b0ls0n View Post
    Clouds rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise around Yogg-Saron. With that in mind is not that hard to avoid them.

    At 1:45 in that video the tank makes a very bad decision, trying to avoid the cloud running in the same direction as the cloud. He almost spawns an extra add.

    Great video as always.
    correct on the first comment. our note was not to run in circles to avoid clouds w/e possible. on an individual basis phase 1 is not that hard. it's just a matter of keeping every individual (including myself) paying attention and keeping mobile.

  8. #8
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    thanx again for guide

  9. #9
    We used the melee on the adds in phase 3, with there back to Yogg Saron, that way there aoe ability's also hit YS while killing off the adds .

  10. #10
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    Just added Stratfu's excellent guides. The full written guide is on their page. I'll be adding in our own written portions as well. And again, we'll have a TankSpot 25-man video up soon too!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    There seem to be two variant strats for phase 1. In some vids I've watched, the majority of the group hang by the door and there is a second smaller group in the middle - new adds are taken down to low health by the door team then taunted and finished in the middle. The other strat (and the one featured in the 10 man vid) is to simply have the raid fight around the middle and avoid the clouds.

    We started working on the 10 man this weekend and have been discussing the relative merits of both approaches. Are there any specific tips for making the strat illustrated in the vid work (ie. how to position to minimise risk of standing in clouds, etc).
    In 10 we found it quite easy just to have tank in middle grab each mob with ranged sticking close to each other and just staying in the open spaces they can find as they come up. Melee runs out of the middle when the mobs are low so they avoid damage although unless they have the +100% dmg debuff they can eat it without much hassle.

    In 25 it was too risky having the whole raid amongst the clouds so we had a rotation of 3 tanks who would pick mobs up and drag them into the middle when they were low and had a group of 4 or so ranged dps who would run in with the tank and finish it from distance. We originally tried having a tank (or two) in the middle who would taunt but we had too many problems with it. Others seem to have it work though.
    Last edited by renrider; 05-05-2009 at 06:23 AM.

  12. #12
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    Phase 1 and 2 notes have been added.

  13. #13
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    Quick note for p1: the Dominate Mind MC is a special case, and can also be cleansed by a paladin. The video only mentions Dispel and Purge as viable spells.

  14. #14
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    For me, tanking P1 of Yogg is the most fun thing in the fight. I'm not sure why I enjoy it so much. Our P1 strat uses two tanks that alternate handling the guardians. We tank a guardian away from the clouds on the outside ring while the melee clobbers them. Once they drop to about 40% health or so the tank kites it to Sara where the ranged finished them off as quickly as possible. Occasionally we might get behind and the tanks deliberately taunt one from the other so that there is always an add able to be DPS'd by the melee.

    I have a couple quick videos I made showing how things can go wrong and what it looks like when done right.

    Wrong: [ame="http://files.filefront.com/YoggBlooperswmv/;13684406;/fileinfo.html"]YoggBloopers.wmv Download File on FileFront[/ame]
    Right: [ame="http://files.filefront.com/YoggP1wmv/;13684594;/fileinfo.html"]YoggP1.wmv Download File on FileFront[/ame]

    We toyed with the idea of tanking and dps'ing them in the center but I agree with what was mentioned about so many people tryin to dodge clouds. You're just asking for an accident.

    Also, key to this strat is ranged being in position for the next add. If they wait until the add gets there before figuring out a good spot to dps from they will fail to kill the add quick enough and you might get caught with two tanks trying to be in the center and no one to pickup the next add that's causing a ruckus in your raid.

    P.S. Sorry I don't know how to prevent the giant boxes for what should be simple links.

  15. #15
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    As a tank having killed him 3 times every week (twice in 10 and once in 25 every week) i can tell you that it is very easy to recognize the patterns in the clouds. For example 2 or 3 times per phase 1 you will get a spawn where 4 clouds line up in a direct line from sara to the door. When this add comes i tell my DPS that its the 4 cloud add and they stop dps around 50 because it takes a good 10 seconds to get that one into the middle

    Also, from the hours of wiping the 1st night we killed him even then i was able to judge how close you can get. You can dance REALLY close to them without spawning. Its mostly about knowing how many dots there are, if a ranged will actually interrupt or will it sit 1 yard away from hitting her and start casting and die without killing her, etc. Those little things come very quickly but it is the type of thing you can only learn through experience and watching a video even from a tank pov will not help you there.



  16. #16
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    Does Yogg-Saron need a tank on him in Phase 3? I didn't see Lore taking any physical hits from him but I might not have been looking hard enough. He also might not have been the tank.

    Also, what is the damage on the raid like in the brain room?

    Very good video. Very easy to follow and explained quite a complex fight in a way that was easily understood.

  17. #17
    How did you personally decide how to split up the portal and ground groups?
    Gertiploiss, the tank without a cause or reason.

  18. #18
    I have a question about Empowering Shadows. What are viable ways of dealing with that ability? Can the cast be interrupted, do you move the adds away when he casts it, do you actually tank them away from the boss, do you nuke the add down which gets the buff?

    We hit the enrage timer recently with p1 and p2 going very well so something went wrong in p3 and i think that this ability might be it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by plitschplatsch View Post
    I have a question about Empowering Shadows. What are viable ways of dealing with that ability? Can the cast be interrupted, do you move the adds away when he casts it, do you actually tank them away from the boss, do you nuke the add down which gets the buff?

    We hit the enrage timer recently with p1 and p2 going very well so something went wrong in p3 and i think that this ability might be it.
    Kill Immortal Guardians fast and Empowering Shadows won't finish. At least, that's my very limited understanding of it, so if anyone can correct that, feel free.

    Adds really need to be dying in under 10 seconds in Phase 3 or you'll get overwhelmed with them. You don't have the option of switching off but you don't need to, either.

  20. #20
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    Do you tank Crusher tentacles? Is it possible? Does the tank need to get out when the buff they get from damage stacks to high? StratFu mentions tank jousting in and out to interrupt. With no tank you can't have any melee on it, is it a good idea to let melee kill constrictors and corruptors while waiting for portals?

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