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Thread: Ulduar Block Gear - Do You Want It?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by bludwork View Post
    since we can tank heroic non-hard mode in bis naxx gear, I guess anything with better stats even block isn't that bad. Remember taking 2k off a 20k hit is not that bad, normally when a boss hits really hard (fusion punch, frozen blows) those are meant to be mitigated using other forms of cooldowns.
    It isn't a question of block being bad, it is a question of it being much, much worse than the alternatives.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by bludwork View Post
    since we can tank heroic non-hard mode in bis naxx gear, I guess anything with better stats even block isn't that bad. Remember taking 2k off a 20k hit is not that bad, normally when a boss hits really hard (fusion punch, frozen blows) those are meant to be mitigated using other forms of cooldowns.
    How about when a tank takes 30,000 hits regularly for about 8 minutes out of 9 that it takes to slay a boss (in the above example, General Vezax)?

    Shield block rating and value are a jest and an afterthought for a serious tanking warrior right now. You might build a shield block set to get some phat shield slams in PvP with the zerker buff, but in PvE even on trash it is of very little use. Perhaps if you end up tanking Mimiron's Trash .. trash, shield block would be handy... or Freya's plants trash.

    The word trash, used above extensively, is the only thing that comes to mind when you hear "shield block value/rating". If you want to be awesome at tanking trash, then yeah, build a set like this - but then be ready to switch to Arms or Fury for the actual boss fight, because you're going to get flattened without EHP and AV that you're missing by wearing SBV gear.

    Anyway, that's just my opinion from personal experience tanking everything in Ulduar so far (on normal mode). Vezax trash is half casters too, and the giants hit for 25k so... yeah again.. =/

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Cincinnati, OH
    Quote Originally Posted by Odwome View Post
    Here's something for all you block-haters to chew on:

    Imagine you're fighting a boss that can kill you in 2 straight hits, which is entirely possible in ulduar 25. Let's say you have 40k health buffed, and the boss is hitting for 20k, so two hits back to back with no significant heals (not counting divine storm or blood aura or anything tiny like that) will kill you.

    If you dodge an attack, then yes, you will take 20k less damage from that attack, and if you block, you will take about 2k less damage. That makes it seem like each percentage point of block chance is worth 1/10 of a percentage point of avoidance. This is true for total damage taken, but the reason block helps is that it makes it much less likely to get into a worst case scenario that would result in a tank death. If getting two back-to-back hits would kill me, then I would rather have about 52 or 53% avoidance with 25 - 27% block on top, than 56% avoidance and only about 17 or 18% block. That lowers your chance from dying in that situation from 26% with the avoidance to 20% with the block.
    I had to think about this a while, because you make a good point. But, in the end it comes down to a matter of chance vs. certainty. If you're trying something above your gear level, or a gimmick strategy for something specific that's not going to take very long, then sure, having a higher chance at not getting 2-shot is a good thing.

    But considering how long most of the Ulduar boss encounters take, the likelihood that you'll stumble upon one of those sets of 2 unmitigated hits in a row approaches a near certainty. And since the goal is flawless repeatability, not messy kills, you should be able to survive every pull without relying on RNG.

    So, stamina and armor (assuming no magic dmg) become the most important stats because effective health is going to be the only thing that can guarantee you live two through consecutive swings. After that, your goal is limit the incoming damage as much as possible to ease the strain on your healers, and well, point for point, you're going to take less damage when geared for avoidance.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    I have all the block gear from Naxx, and already have a couple block pieces from Ulduar. I can hit 2000 sbv /38% SBR unbuffed. In Ulduar, I've cleared 9/15 bosses on 10-man, and 5/15 on 25-man.

    With the raw incoming physical damage of each hit in nearly all the encounters in Ulduar, block is heavily undertuned for Ulduar encounters.

    Some of the gear with SBV/SBR in ulduar is good, and is a worthwhile upgrade over naxx25 pieces itemized with avoidance or 'real' threat stats. But this gear is an upgrade because of the higher strength, armor and stamina, not because it has block on it.

    I've found stacking avoidance stats to be somewhat lack luster as well due to the blend of physical/magical damage and the RNG factor of avoidance in long-fight progression raiding. (You still need avoidance, but emphasizing it in your gearsets isn't effective in Ulduar.)

    I wouldn't be concerned to exchange some parry rating, or small amounts of dodge for SBV/SBR *if* you can also increase your EH.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    The Poconos
    The tanks in my guild didnt seem wild about the SBV/SBR gloves that dropped off the Council last night....Some of this stuff looks uber for prot pvp to me

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    There are 3 ways to reduce incoming damage...

    Armor: Straight up mitigation. Reduces incoming damage of every physical hit. Also works with Stamina to increase Effective Health.

    Avoidance: Chance to not take any damage. It's random, so not reliable. But at least when it works it works all the way and you don't even take the hit.

    Now let's meet the retarded inbred little cousin of the above two...

    Block Rating: Block works a lot like Armor in that it reduces the damage of physical attacks. However, unlike Armor, it is random and doesn't apply to every hit. It has the same drawback as avoidance, except it only reduces a small %, not the whole thing.

    Block Rating is crap. Block Value is not bad but mainly as a threat stat for warriors. BR is not worthless, but it has a very low value on bosses, which is really all that matters, because it's random, and it absorbs such a small amount of damage compared to what you're getting hit for. It's damn near wasted itemization.

    Any pieces I have with Block Rating on them, the BR was an afterthought. I wear the piece for the other stats, and wear it in spite of the Block Rating not because of it.

    Also, regarding Avoidance. I think the people who are complaining about the diminishing returns don't realize something. Avoidance also has increasing returns that offset a good portion of the decreasing returns that Blizzard introduced in WotLK. The more avoidance you have, the more each % point is worth. At 0%, the next 1% reduces 1% of incoming damage (1/100). At 50%, the next 1% reduces 2% of the incoming damage (1/50), so it's effectively worth twice as much.

    IMO, don't ever worry that you have too much avoidance and are wasting itemization on it. The increasing returns cancel out much of the diminishing returns so you probably receive damn near the same benefit per rating point at any level. I think this was Blizzard's intention, because in the past, people were stacking too much of it, and it became overpowered in certain situations, with trinkets popped, etc. It also allowed rogues to tank, which was not in the game plan.

    And don't ever think that a good plan is to trade out Avoidance pieces for Block Rating pieces because diminishing returns on your Avoidance are getting to be too much. No.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    You know, I think a lot of the problem with block gear in T7 content was that it was poorly itemized. For example, outside of PVP, I'd never bother using Inexorable Sabatons. It just wasn't a piece that was hugely useful outside of certain fights. One of the greatest problems with block was that you needed to stack some block value for it to become useful, and that gimped you in other aspects.

    I think that T8 is itemized a lot better, and the hearty amount of Block Value and strength that it has will mean that most tanks will be blocking significantly more damage now, even if they are stacking avoidance or effective health. It might get to the point where that 1 block item starts to look a little tasty, or you'd look at something like this and think it was a good, all round cloak. I'd probably still be aiming for effective health moreso than avoidance or block, but I think the block gear in Ulduar will work nicely with T8.

    Overall though, I think I'd be much happier taking a block piece in full T8 than I would be while in T7.

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