Ulduar Block Gear - Do You Want It?
There seems to be an abundance of new block-heavy gear in Ulduar. As a Warrior, I've always disliked how poorly block scales and generally avoid it whenever possible when gearing for boss encounters. How are other warriors in the community approaching this new wave of gear?
My guild runs a loot council system, and I have been rolling with DPSers on block gear as an offspec set because I don't want to lose out on items I actually want (and will use) to other non-shield-wearing tanks because all this block gear gets defaulted to me. Am I wrong in generally avoiding block-heavy gear like it is the plague? Is there a Loatheb-esque encounter in Ulduar that I'm not aware of where a block set would ever be appropriate or wanted?
Is this Paladin gear? Or is Blizzard out of touch with the gearing needs of modern Warrior tanks?
yes, most definately yes. The bosses there hit like Mac trucks packed in concrete. More block I can do and survive the better.
For most bosses in ulduar, block is generally a bad stat. With bosses hitting 2-4x harder than naxx bosses, that means your block value is going to be worth 2-4x less. Even as a paladin, I only consider the block gear as threat gear. If it's a matter of passing the gear so you can get the better avoidance gear, I would do so.
Though there is plenty of undisirable gear from Ulduar, there are several amazing pieces. You have to remember there are 800 items from Ulduar, there is plenty of gear that you want and plenty you don't. Though you might have to wait longer for some of them, most are well worth the wait.
As a warrior I am not so sure, as a pally then yes I would like it in my bag for trash and threat sets.
Is it such a high priority, probably not but it's certainly a nice to have.
Last edited by Wulverin; 04-23-2009 at 05:23 AM.
Prot Pallies like most of the same gear warriors do, with the exception of expertice being less desirable for us as it is easier for us to reach the dodge cap with the SoV glyph, and few of our attacks are parriable.
BR/BV gear is great for add tanking (like the blazes/whelps on sarth 3d), trash/threat sets, and good for some gimmick fights like loatheb.
I love the use of "FOTM" on forum boards. Right now, the "FOTM" is bashing on block. Historically, I'm on record as a block fan. I have since changed my position to a block "non-hater". I'm not so much a "fan" anymore, but at the same time i'm not a hater.
I was fortunate that for a long time, I've been the only Warrior raiding alongside only one prot paladin. Between the two of us, we've been able to acquire every single piece of Naxx tank gear (except boots off thadius and last laugh - never saw them drop in 5 mos).
What I did was strip naked and perform the following gearing:
1) Total naked, stacked all the gear that had a heavy focus on dodge. If there was a piece that didn't have dodge, I just picked what I thought was the "best"
2) TOtal naked, stacked all the gear that had a heavy focus on parry. If there was a piece that didn't have parry, I just picked what I thought was the "best"
3) Total naked, stacked all the gear that had a heavy focus on block. If there was a piece that didn't have block, I just picked what I thought was the "best"
4) Total naked, just picked what what I thought was the best all around piece.
In terms of spec...i had 5/5 deflection, 5/5 anticipatin, and 5/5 shield spec
From my very crude "test". There was a noticeable pattern.
1) Dodge was going great until around 21%...after 21% on the character screen, then diminishing returns sucked. I was able to get as high as 26%
2) Parry was nearly the same - 21% on the character screen, again diminishing returns was very noticeable. I never broke 25% (24.something)
3) Block (as we all know) never suffered from diminishing returns. I was able to hit 39% block
4) Going with what looked like "best", I was able to hit: 22.xx% Dodge, 21.xx% Parry, 28% block
More importantly to this crude test was what happened to the other stats when I focussed on one:
1) 26% dodge made my block around 22% and my parry was 18%
2) 24% parry my dodge was around 20.xx% dodge and block was 21%
3) 39% block my dodge was also around 20% but parry was 17%
so in order of Dodge|Parry|Block
1) 26d | 18p | 22b
2) 20d | 24p | 21b
3) 20d | 17p | 39b
4) 22d | 21p | 28b
I think we can all agree that blizzard should perhaps revisit the "block" mechanic (along with it's buddy SBV). When getting hit for 20-22k hits routinely, 1400-1800 deducted from blocking isn't really that big of a deal. However, if you're already around 21-22% dodge/parry...and adding an iLVL upgrade that is block doesn't drop you below that, an upgrade is an upgrade.
I would never recommend a warrior (or pally) to exclussive focus on block (outside of a gimmick "set"). At the same time, if an upgrade drops I would not recommend passing on it simply because it had block on it either.
Last edited by Canariensis; 04-23-2009 at 08:15 AM.
Reason: paragraph formatting
I think you guys nailed this topic. I find block great on trash mobs on the way to bosses, sick in heroics (invincible except on bosses), and really interesting in pvp because of the HUGE shield slams!
The issue is not gear that happens to have block rating or value on it (several pieces of Warrior tier 8, for example), but gear that is exclusively itemized for it.
Signet of the Earthshaker - Item - World of Warcraft
Handguards of the Enclave - Item - World of Warcraft
Dragonslayer's Brace - Item - World of Warcraft
Unbreakable Chestguard - Item - World of Warcraft
I guess I'm just at a loss for why Blizzard has put what appears to be a full set of purely block gear in Ulduar when the tanking community is in general agreement that such gear is absolutely useless on 32/33 WotLK raid bosses.
I would argue those pieces are not "useless". They are a higher iLvL, have higher amounts of Armor and Stamina and strength. Get your dodge/parry from the other pieces.
Originally Posted by Legomyaggro
If you dodge 'x' amount of times, and you parry 'y' amount of times...while block (as already detailed) isn't providing "zomg awesome returns"...it's still "something".
If it's an upgrade...it's an upgrade and you should take it.
***Now then, in no way should someone tank 25 man bosses in 'all' block gear. Then again, I wouldn't recommend someone tank in all dodge gear or all parry gear.
Anyone else notice how much BV is on Warrior T8. This makes me think that Blizzard is strongly considering either removing Block Rating or pushing for a more Shield Block to Block type of game play.
As such, it seems to be that stacking Block Value for bosses might someday be very useful (for physical attacks anway), for a well timed Shield Block (T8 4Pc too for magic). Say during a Flurry of Attacks... EQ style
Originally Posted by Canariensis
It's not a matter of getting your avoidance elsewhere, it's a matter of getting your avoidance everywhere. The point people are trying to make, is a minimal gain in sta or armor from the higher ilvl, isn't making up for the huge loss in avoidance being traded to block.
I'm completely torn right now as to how to consider block gear.
I've long had the opinion that trash doesn't count. If you need a special set of gear to handle trash effectively, then you have no business being wherever you are.
So it comes down to bosses. I'm a paladin, and have been floating around the block cap for some time (if my raidmembers debuff the boss correctly, I should be comfortably block capped), but I'm starting to wonder if it is worth it. 2k damage reduction off of a 25k hit isn't going to save me, and if I can exchange 5% block chance for 1% dodge chance, I will right now, block simply isn't effective enough at the moment. (5% chance to reduce my damage by 1800 is worth about 90 damage in the long run. 1% chance to ignore a 20k blow is worth about 200 in the long run.)
I also used to like being block capped so my incoming damage wouldn't be spikey. A 10% of less difference I wouldn't call a spike, I'd call it a wobble, and I'm fine with my incoming damage being wobbley.
Here's something for all you block-haters to chew on:
Imagine you're fighting a boss that can kill you in 2 straight hits, which is entirely possible in ulduar 25. Let's say you have 40k health buffed, and the boss is hitting for 20k, so two hits back to back with no significant heals (not counting divine storm or blood aura or anything tiny like that) will kill you.
If you dodge an attack, then yes, you will take 20k less damage from that attack, and if you block, you will take about 2k less damage. That makes it seem like each percentage point of block chance is worth 1/10 of a percentage point of avoidance. This is true for total damage taken, but the reason block helps is that it makes it much less likely to get into a worst case scenario that would result in a tank death. If getting two back-to-back hits would kill me, then I would rather have about 52 or 53% avoidance with 25 - 27% block on top, than 56% avoidance and only about 17 or 18% block. That lowers your chance from dying in that situation from 26% with the avoidance to 20% with the block.
If you are sitting in range of dying to 2 straight hits, then that's a question of EH vs Avoidance. Yes Block is EH and would be somewhat helpful in this case, but getting more stam or armor would generally be much better.
Blocking more often than not won't change anything. My block is about 1k damage, how often 2 x boss hit will be exactly up to my health + 1k? I rather squeeze some more armor and health, to have surviving of this double hit guaranteed instead. Block is absolutely the last stat I am interested in, after mitigation, stamina, avoidance and threat stats. How often I won't have an item available with stats that I prefer - almost never...
Originally Posted by Odwome
Damn that ulduar with it's 1 big bad ass hitting mob trying to kill the tank while the healers heal the tank and dps kills the boss.
No, wait, there are "adds" on atleast the 4 first bosses that I have done (not counting levi). All of them. And as far as I know they too are meant to be tanked.
since we can tank heroic non-hard mode in bis naxx gear, I guess anything with better stats even block isn't that bad. Remember taking 2k off a 20k hit is not that bad, normally when a boss hits really hard (fusion punch, frozen blows) those are meant to be mitigated using other forms of cooldowns.
So far i can say theres NO encounter in Ulduar where block set would be usefull. Trash in ulduar (we stay at mimiron) isnt the same as trash in Naxx - you get 2-mobs pack where everyone hits for something like 15k - thats much more that 90% of Naxx Bosses. The trash can and should also be cc'ed - so, if theres a block item dropping take it if noone else wants it , if not stack with EH /Avo items or single target tps items aswell before block.
If you read my first post though...once you reach 21% (in dodge or parry)...the returns on points spent for them is heavily impacted by diminishing returns.
Originally Posted by Ieatpugs
If you're sitting at 21-22%, and one of those pieces drop and they are an ilvl upgrade, I would not suggest you pass on the item. Yes, you may lose a few .xx% of parry/dodge, but not enough to even worry about it.
If however, the "upgrade" drops you below 21% then it might be best to let it go or bank it.
I'm not saying 21% is the "magic" number, but around 21% is where you really notice the effects of diminishing returns from itemization points towards dodge/parry.
I simply never see an add tank's healer(s) saying, "Gosh, I wish those pesky adds hit you more often but for 1-2k less per hit, that would make healing so much easier!" This isn't Hyjal trash; you're generally add-tanking 1-3 mobs and they usually have abilities outside of their melee (chain lightning, pounce, rumble, etc.) that contribute most of the damage.
Originally Posted by Swanky