DPS Warriors Sunder?

[Deliciouss]

Forgive me if this topic has been brought up before, I couldn't find it when I did a search.

Simple question, in a raid on a boss, if there are no prot warriors in the raid, should a DPS warrior Sunder the boss?

Why?

(if yes) What about the "aggro issues"?

Thank you.

[Kazeyonoma]

yes. it increases dps significantly for anyone who is affected by Armor (physical dps'ers/tanks)

there shouldn't be any aggro issues. give the tank a few seconds, then unload it. then just refresh it between your rotations. Remember if you are in battle or berserker stance you no longer have the 2.07* modifier on threat, and instead have a 30% reduction.

[Samshel]

Im no theorycrafter, but less armor is more melee dps, when im tanking i not only do the sunders for threat(and dps with devataste), but to help melee dps.

I´ve raided as fury, and when there is no prot tank, i use sunders when i have everthing else on CD. As Arms, giving the actual state i think is a must have up so you benefit from the armor pen from the stance.

[hbombs]

and if your dps warriors refuse to apply it.. gkick em

[swelt]

The only reason not to use sunders would be if it were more efficient for a rogue to apply Expose Armor instead. In most situations, Fury warriors pay a lower opportunity cost to apply sunders, but a HAT (honor amongst thieves) rogue is normally the exception.

[Fayre]

Yes they should Sunder the boss - it's not part of their 'standard' rotation by any means though, so you might need to ask them to do so.

Aggro should be no particular bother. It's 5 applications and then an odd one to keep it up every 30s - this won't be pulling aggro from the MT in a hurry.

[Kazeyonoma]

yeh, and it's seriously only like 5 gcds at the beginning of the fight that's being wasted. If your warriors want to complain about lost dps, have them draw up the actual math where their 5 gcds (probably less if you've got more than one throwing em up) would outweigh the dps of the entire raid, let alone their own DPS by HAVING the sunders up. If they can do that (impossible unless you run with only 1 physical dps and it is said fury warrior, in which case they're gimping their own overall dps anyways) than say go for it don't sunder. If they don't, and they continue to not want to sunder, kick em. We're having this issue with one of our dps warriors in my guild right now. We're seriously considering benching him. It's not just about dps, it's about being selfish to something that is a minor MINOR inconvenience for the benefit of the entire raid.

[austaz]

I did a rough check on this while we were doing 10man3D zerg runs and found the best mix was for a fury warrior (I was fury for these not tank) to WW/BT first then stack the sunders on spare global cooldowns. Stacking 5 sunders right off the start was a huge personal dps loss due to the rage cost which left me 15 seconds into the fight with almost 0 rage, 5 sunders up and both rage gen abilities used to supply the rage to get the sunders up quick so waiting another 5+ seconds to get back into a normal cycle. This personal dps loss was more than the raid woudl gain in those first 20 seconds.

A better options was rage abilities, then WW/ BT/ Sunder/ Sunder/ Sunder/ BT/ WW/ Sunder etc and build the stack as you go. This means the fury warrior dps is almost on par with normal (just skipping HS to make sure rage is availbe for sunders) and the sunders only take about an extra 10 seconds to build, a lot less if you have 2 fury warriors do it.

[Bung]

Absolutely...as well as keep it at 5 stacks and also keep battle shout and demo shout up.