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Thread: 550 New Ulduar Def Cap?

  1. #21
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    true, true, if you have to tank through an unbalancing strike (basically waiting to be taunted off of), I'd agree, saving shield block for that moment would be very beneficial.

    Also, thanks for confirming the crushing blow question Ieatpugs. Base defense removed. scary O_o.

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  2. #22
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    Hi guys,
    I don't know about min def being 540 but i do see some top guild tanks having 545 defence. And the most important they do it on purpose as it seems (stones, enchants. etc). Even Ciderhelm has 545 defence.
    What are you comments on that?
    Thanks!

  3. #23
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    As 540 is only minimum, a lot of tanks will start jumping over it. Most Ulduar gear has an increase of defense, so any tank who was sitting comfortably above 540 will only go further over. Not to mention, a lot more tanks are grabbing more avoidance, and def does quite well as an avoidance stat.

  4. #24
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    Not to mention it is nice to have extra defense incase you get an upgrade that has lower defense on it. Then you don't have to regem/re-enchant. I have 547 defense, not because I need that much, but because that is what I have.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by danasha View Post
    Hi guys,
    I don't know about min def being 540 but i do see some top guild tanks having 545 defence. And the most important they do it on purpose as it seems (stones, enchants. etc). Even Ciderhelm has 545 defence.
    What are you comments on that?
    Thanks!
    Not to be overly blunt, but this question shows a decided lack of understanding of Defense as a stat for Warriors. Your question implies that 5 Defense rating over the minimum is somehow not useful unless there's an increased chance for bosses to critically hit?

    Lets remain clear. Defense is a good stat well beyond the minimum. "Stacking" it at the behest of Stamina and Armor may not be a good idea (though I honestly don't even know how one would go about doing that anyway given the available gear) but that doesn't mean you reach 540 and stop either.


    ^^ By the way, for all you people who think it's not a big deal to use the term "Defense Cap" just look at the result. LOOK at it. This person is clearly new to tanking and comes in with the assumption that 540 is a hard cap. Why do you think he has that assumption in his head? Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that you unwashed barbarians INSIST on calling it a "defense cap" despite the fact that it's nothing of the sort? You think it's a joke when we get angry, but this is exactly the kind of misunderstanding that results when you're too lazy to describe something with accurate terminology.

    /endrant

  6. #26
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    *fetches hose with cold water for Kerchunk*

    Welcome to the English language. If you're angry about the misunderstanding of the term "Defense Cap", I humbly suggest you take a look at the many, many other failings of English.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your frustration with tanks who don't know how to gear correctly. But that is a fail on their part for not knowing what the Defense stat does. The term you're angry about was coined to simplify the explanation, and let the tank get on with tanking, and not worry about gear balance until they get to the point where they need to. Does it create less-than-stellar tanks? Yes. But they exist anyway, and will get weeded out one way or another. Any good player will take the time to learn their class in depth, which includes how stats affect them. The tanks that cannot perform will respec dps, and we'll all be better off for it.

    /endmotherlyspeech
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryenne View Post
    Welcome to the English language.
    So, let me get this straight: you consistently and continually use the language incorrectly and then you turn around and blame it when people misunderstand what you're saying? Sorry, but that's nonsense. That's like saying "Hey guys I'm taking a limousine to the concert, come on over!" and then when all your friends show up and you're driving a Volkswagen Beetle you say "Hey, welcome to the English language!"

    Use accurate terminology to describe things and people will understand what you mean. Use inaccurate terminology and they will not. It's as simple as that. Don't blame the language because you're too lazy to use words that accurately describe things.

    But that is a fail on their part for not knowing what the Defense stat does.
    No, it's not. New tanks hear the term "defense cap." Cap has a very specific meaning in the World of Warcraft - the point at which a stat stops providing the player with benefits. Said new tanks come to forums like this looking for help and ask "What's this defense cap I keep hearing about?" and people like you say "It's 540." So, they go and get 540 and assume that's all they should ever have.

    Is it their fault Blizzard provides no helpful documentation in-game on this? Is it their fault people like you refuse to clarify that there is NO SUCH THING as a "defense cap?" because for some asinine reason you insist on clinging to inaccurate terminology simply because "that's what everybody else calls it so why not?"

    The term you're angry about was coined to simplify the explanation
    No, it wasn't. It was coined at a time when there WAS a Defense cap and Defense DID stop providing benefits at a certain point. When that changed, everyone who cared to know what they were talking about STOPPED CALLING IT A CAP. Everyone else continued to do so, perpetuating misinformation and confusing new tanks everywhere simply because they're too lazy to use different words. Is "defense minimum" or "uncrittable" really so confusing to you that it's going to distract you from tanking? Please...

    Any good player will take the time to learn their class in depth
    YES. And one way in which those good players learn their class in depth is by coming to places like Tankspot and asking questions which they hope are answered by people who know what they are talking about - i.e., that there is no Defense Cap. Unfortunately because of people like you, they walk away as confused and misinformed as they were when they arrived all because you insist on clinging to outdated terminology for no good reason whatsoever.

    /endevenlongerrant

  8. #28
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    540 is a soft cap for defense, and soft cap is a term used for many classes / stats.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerchunk View Post
    No, it wasn't. It was coined at a time when there WAS a Defense cap and Defense DID stop providing benefits at a certain point. When that changed, everyone who cared to know what they were talking about STOPPED CALLING IT A CAP. Everyone else continued to do so, perpetuating misinformation and confusing new tanks everywhere simply because they're too lazy to use different words. Is "defense minimum" or "uncrittable" really so confusing to you that it's going to distract you from tanking? Please...
    When was this? As far back as I can remember, defense has always provided some benefit between avoidance and crit reduction.

    As an aside (not directed at Kerchunk), I do find the total abhorance for calling it a cap interesting. After 540 defense, you get no more crit reduction from the stat against raid bosses. Your crit reduction effectively caps.

    However, I do think the term "cap" is misleading. There are indeed benefits after you hit it. However, we use the same terminology with expertise and no one seems really upset about it. After 26 expertise, you no longer reduce dodge chance, and we call it a soft cap. After 540 defense we no longer reduce crit chance, but even remotely referring to it as a cap seems like voodoo to some.

    After lots of thought, I like referring to it as a minimum...however, seeing someone calling it a cap doesn't cause my blood to boil or anything. I just make sure to toss out the caviat to them that defense has benefits after it stops reducing crit chance.
    Last edited by jere; 04-23-2009 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #30
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    It's April, 2009, four and a half years since this game was released. There have been two expansions. And yet people are still posting in these threads?

    Can we make a sticky about defense, explaining everything someone could possibly want to know about the defense skill, reaching it with defense rating, achieving uncrittability, the avoidance and block rating benefits of defense... and then start banning people who post nonsense instead of reading this sticky?

    Edit: Put this sticky in this forum please: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...questions.html. Just straight up put it in every forum. "FAQ" is I think less apt of a name for that thread than "Common Misconceptions."

  11. #31
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    When was this? As far back as I can remember, defense has always provided some benefit between avoidance and crit reduction.

    As an aside (not directed at Kerchunk), I do find the total abhorance for calling it a cap interesting. After 540 defense, you get no more crit reduction from the stat against raid bosses. Your crit reduction effectively caps.
    Right. It caps your get-critted chance. So it'd be a getcrittedcap.
    However, I do think the term "cap" is misleading. There are indeed benefits after you hit it. However, we use the same terminology with expertise and no one seems really upset about it. After 26 expertise, you no longer reduce dodge chance, and we call it a soft cap. After 540 defense we no longer reduce crit chance, but even remotely referring to it as a cap seems like voodoo to some.

    After lots of thought, I like referring to it as a minimum...however, seeing someone calling it a cap doesn't cause my blood to boil or anything. I just make sure to toss out the caviat to them that defense has benefits after it stops reducing crit chance.
    I call it a minimum as well, and I will correct anyone who calls it a cap. I also explain to them why I correct them. A 'cap' is a goal you should attain. A point after which adding that stat becomes useless, and should be avoided. This is not the case for defense - 540 defense is not the point where you end, it is the point where you begin. Getting more of it is quite good - in my opinion, it is the best stat to use to get to the block cap. (I used to say unhittable, but people who don't understand the hit table get confused by that.)

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