Off Tanking, having trouble with threat

[Elemek]

My guild has started working on OS. I am newly geared for starting heroics, and have enough def/res to be uncrittable, so I am probably not geared enough for OS, which I acknowledge is likely part of the problem. However, when I tank heroics, I still have trouble keeping threat and dealing with adds, and I know I'm geared enough for H:Nexus and UK at least. I am not the guilds main tank, and so usually off-tank. My survivability is decent, but I'm having a lot of difficulty off taking fights such as Sarth where I have to pick up lots of adds. I am resorting to spamming Taunt and Challenging Shout, which I know is very bad tankmanship. I have been using the 15/5/51 build, and am fairly sure that will continue to be good with 3.1. I was, however, considering something more like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, with two floater points that could go in improved charge, commanding presence, shield spec, or improved disciplines. Also, I could take 2 cuelty and 5 imp. demo.
Also, considering that my best tank gear has just adequate defence and survivability with subpar threat, what can I do to improve my threat without sacrificing my health and defence? Upgrading my belt would be an easy choice; the icecrown girdle has stamina and sockets, and nothing else. Anything else I should look for?

[Maleus]

From the sounds of it, its your rotation. possibly your build. Not sure what 12/8/51 was, the cookie cutter was deep wounds speced, 15/5/51 Some changes to dw, may or may not change the best threat build.Gear plays a role in threat, as in missing hits, getting dodged and parried. But not to the extent of spamming taunts. What rotation were you using? It should be keeping everything on cool down, heroic strikes in between.

If you are heroic geared, your mitigation and avoidance is probably low enough to where rage isn't an issue. Make sure you are using all of your abilities on mobs to build threat, unused rage is a waste. If you have a full red bar, do what you can to dump it for added threat.

Sorry for this looking jumbled, posted from my phone.

[Elemek]

From the sounds of it, its your rotation. possibly your build. Not sure what 12/8/51 was, the cookie cutter was deep wounds speced, 15/5/51 Some changes to dw, may or may not change the best threat build.Gear plays a role in threat, as in missing hits, getting dodged and parried. But not to the extent of spamming taunts. What rotation were you using? It should be keeping everything on cool down, heroic strikes in between.

If you are heroic geared, your mitigation and avoidance is probably low enough to where rage isn't an issue. Make sure you are using all of your abilities on mobs to build threat, unused rage is a waste. If you have a full red bar, do what you can to dump it for added threat.

Sorry, mistyped. I had the 15/5/51 spec with deep wounds (fixed in original post). Everything on Cooldown w/ heroic strikes is what I'm trying for, and rage usually isn't an issue as long as I'm tanking something. But when I have to take a large number of adds, such as the whelplings on Tenebres or the fire elementals on Sarth, I have trouble grabbing aggro on all of them w/o resorting to challenging shout and stealing the boss from the main tank. Usually there's one or two I haven't managed to grab, and that builds up over the course of the fight, leading to a wipe. So, it's managing large groups that is giving me trouble.

[Bryenne]

Warriors and druids generally have a harder time picking up groups than paladins and dks. You have a few options:
- demoralizing shout, won't pull the boss, puts some threat on newly spawned adds. Won't hold them for long against healing aggro, but it's a start.
- thunder clap, especially if you picked up improved, will get them all on you in a hurry.
- shockwave, easily the best threat builder for aoe, but requires everything to be in front of you.
- cleave, spam the hell out of it while tab targeting. Especially useful if glyphed.

The ideal situation would be to thunderclap immediately as the whelps spawn, run out of them, spin, and shockwave. Then just tab through the targets and use your normal rotation.

Alternatively, use what you have. Hunters and rogues can both misdirect large groups of mobs your way very quickly; make sure they do so. Have a mage frost nova, making it easier for you to grab them. Position yourself and your group in such a way that the drake is out of range when you use challenging shout on the whelps. Solutions are they, you just have to find them.

[Malavar]

Agree with everything Bryenne said. If your going to off tank most of the time, focus on things that reduce your rage cost and maximize your AOE abilities. Definitely get Improved Thunder Clap and consider even getting a Glyph of Resonating Power to let you really keep them up as much as possible. You also might seriously consider taking back Improved Charge as well, since you'll need as much rage as you can at the start. With those changes, I don't think you really need the Improved Cleave, as you should be able to easily drop Thunder Claps often and rotate Shockwaves in when you can.