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Thread: Getting a Guild Ready for Ulduar

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    120

    Getting a Guild Ready for Ulduar

    I'm seeing an issue with my current guild as far as raid progression and I wanted to an opinion from you guys about it. My guild is currently seeing alot of desire for our raiders to see 25 man naxx (we have one very painful clear under our belt), however a good half to two thirds of our raiders do not have the will to gear their toons to enter 25 man content. 10 man naxx runs get scheduled, however they in up becoming shard farming runs for the higher geared raider cause the under geared ones simply will not run the 10 man content. So here is my question.

    Is it possible to gear up for 25 man naxx and later on Ulduar without progressing through the 10 man versions (IE....with emblem gear, BOE crafted stuff, etc)???

    The guild leaders keep putting up the 25 man content for fear of losing the higher geared members, but these runs almost always end up being heavy in wipes with a clear taking a full week (if we clear it at all).

    Any thoughts or suggestions??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    4

    Boot the UNwilling ones

    I would say just boot the people who are undergeared that will not even try gearing up yet if a majority is undergeared. It will just be a waste of time because they woudn't be geared for the fights when they do them and it would result in a massive failure. Cause that means they will want to be carried, which will undoubtly mean your gonna be maybe 10 manning 25s or whoever or how many is geared, and trying to get geared.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    111
    Your officers need to make it clear that attendance for all scheduled raids as well as gear will be taken into consideration when it comes to picking people for 25-man raids.

    If your undergeared members refuse to go to 10-man Naxx, there is a problem, especially since it's also a good place to learn the fights. There is absolutely no reason not to go unless it's because they expect to be carried through 25man raids.

    Suggestion? Recruit more serious raiders.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ruhr Area
    Posts
    100
    10 Man Gear is of course helpful, but definitly not needed to make progress in Naxx25.

    But:
    As it sound's some of your guild members doesn't have a real interesst in raiding. If they wanted to, they would show up. I can explain how it works in our mediocre raid. We have 3 Raids a week with 4 hours each. We cleared Naxx in Mid-December and also take down Sarth 3D a few weeks later. On days where no guildraid is scheduled, my guildmembers either do naxx10 with their mains, or do naxx25/naxx10 with their alts - not because I wanted them to do so, but because they like to raid. Same with Ulduar. Were on Yogg Saron now, but in the same time we have two 10man groups doing Ulduar10 - voluntarily.

    So here is my suggestion:
    Speak with your people: Ask them if they really have an interesst in raiding or if they just answer the call of duty. Make them clear, that when they wanted to raid, they have to take the raiding schedule serious. Make them clear, that this is a team-game and when somebody shits on the team, because for example they come and go as they want, then the team will shit on them. Make a list of people who really want to raid and the one's, who have no real interesst. You won't make progress with people who didn't want it, you can't force them. Then try to invite new people to stabilize your rading setup. You need at least around ~40 people to have a stable 25man setup. You didn't need to kick the people who don't wanna raid - my guild consists of our raiding team and about another 30 people who are real life friends, brothers, sisters, girl-friends our just people who joined our guild because of the people there. This way, you always have some people who eventually can show up if there is a free slot or whatever, though this shouldn't be your business-management to fill your raids every night with other people.

    And make them clear: There is no "perhaps". Either they will raid and will show up 2 or 3 days a week, or they will not join the raiding team. They mustn't come and go as they want. They mustn't - this is important - stay in your guild as "no-raider" and claim a raiding spot once a week, making trouble if they don't get it. Either they raid and you can depend on them, or they don't. Having people who takes raiding serious - just like a amateur-soccer club - is absolutly needed. A raiding guild is nothing more and nothing less than a soccer-club.
    Last edited by Nidhoggr; 06-16-2009 at 11:28 PM.
    Ulduar25 (13/14)
    Coliseum25 (5/5)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    41
    What has been said above and I would say push into Ulduar 10 with your better guys who want to raid at least thats not a shard exercise for them.

    You could also joint raid with another guild for 25 man content, we did it for naxx/OS/VOA and are doing in Ulduar atm.
    grinding in the African bush...........

  6. #6
    You don't need 10man gear to do 25man content, although 10man does have some pieces which is bis for a lot of classes, like trinkets.

    Progression on 10 and 25 was designed to parallel eachother. It really doesn't make sense to use 10mans to gear up for 25mans when they don't even add up to the same amount of people. Say for example you run 2 10man groups, where will you get the 5 extras from for 25s? And if you run 3 10man groups, then that means 5 people have to sit out later.


    But if your raiders are too lazy to gear up, what's to say they're not too lazy to gear up for Ulduar in Naxx for example? Everyone has to gear up to see content, and if they just want to jump in the latest available instance, then that's just plain lazy, and pretty rude to those who did put an effort into getting proper gear. They need to be demoted to casuals or gkicked.
    Last edited by Cookie; 06-18-2009 at 06:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    34
    It does sound like there needs to be a serious discussion about guild goals and focus. Naxx is significantly easier raiding content than much of the rest of this game, and those who are having problem with it generally have one or more of the following problems:

    1. Lack of focus
    2. Lack of drive
    3. Lack of gear
    4. Lack of skill

    If your guild actually wants to complete raid content, you're going to have to set some serious guidelines.

    1. When are raids?
    2. What are the minimum gear requirements to attend?
    3. What is the goal of the raid? (How much is expected to be cleared in a night?)

    Then, you're going to need a solid leader who is willing to make the tough decisions, and deal with the fallout of telling people who aren't willing to attend often and gear up that they're not going to be running with the group. Someone who knows the content, and a bit about each class and how they're best used to defeat an encounter, and confidently leads the group through the instance. Lastly, that leader needs to be willing to tell those who do actually show up, but don't perform well to step up their game or remove them from the group.

    You can carry a mediocre group through Naxx25 with good leadership. You will not get past the first few bosses in Ulduar without quite a bit of the above.

    Dedication. Leadership. Gear.

    All needed for successful raiding.
    Shox - [80] Protection Paladin || Armory
    Ovation - [80] Holy Priest || Armory

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    135
    It really doesn't make sense to use 10mans to gear up for 25mans when they don't even add up to the same amount of people. Say for example you run 2 10man groups, where will you get the 5 extras from for 25s? And if you run 3 10man groups, then that means 5 people have to sit out later.

    Just out of curiosity, how many end-game raiding guilds have you seen with exactly 25 raiders that have 100% attendance? 3 10 man Ulduar groups would be a viable option imo o.O

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Voodan View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how many end-game raiding guilds have you seen with exactly 25 raiders that have 100% attendance? 3 10 man Ulduar groups would be a viable option imo o.O
    If you're hardcore? Close to 100% is required, but of course no guild is going to run on exactly 25 people.

    My guild has about 30+ active people with raider rank, and every raid, there's at least 2 people sitting out. Sometimes, there's even 5 sitting out. But even with these 30 people, we only have one Ulduar10 group each week due to lack of interest.

    But even though running 3 10 man groups is "viable" in theory, it's not required. You can complete Ulduar10 in Naxx10 gear and you can complete Ulduar25 in Naxx25 gear.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Voodan View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how many end-game raiding guilds have you seen with exactly 25 raiders that have 100% attendance? 3 10 man Ulduar groups would be a viable option imo o.O
    We have 30 people with a 95% attendance, keeping in mind they will pull in their alts if they are more needed. We got two more bosses down in 25 ulduar this week and we're the first ally guild on the server to full clear 10ulduar w/ no pugs.

    Honestly, I feel like ten man gear is needed to a point. I won't lie, I went into 25 naxx on my druid the day I hit 80, with that in mind, I had ALL of the crafted epics I could get my hands on. The group I went in with, was not my guild at the time and still is not, but rather a friend's guild.

    /start random
    I was the lowest geared healer and picked up 6 pieces, most being cloth. Ran a handful of heroics picked up a new healing idol. Then pugged into a 10 man naxx with someone I had ran with before, pick up another piece or two. Then the next week pugged into another 10 man naxx with my old guild. Pick up two trinkets and a ring. Here's what I find amusing, 1. My druid's gear score is relative to my dk tanks, except it took days instead of weeks to get. 2. My guild pulled me into 25 ulduar and was not the lowest on the healing meter.
    /end random

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