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Thread: Unrelenting Assault -- 3.1 Alternative Build

  1. #1
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    Unrelenting Assault -- 3.1 Alternative Build




    The Talent Build
    37/0/32 (PTR Calculator on Wowhead)

    There are two leftover points. Recommendation is Last Stand and Vigilance, but you can customize it to your needs. You can also shift the points in Iron Will to Tactical Mastery, especially if you're using Juggernaut or Recklessness and need to stance dance early.


    Why Unrelenting Assault

    With the release of 3.1 coming up, many Protection Warriors have been concerned that Blizzard has made few changes that affect the standard Deep Wounds build. However, the introduction of Dual Specs has the potential to revolutionize the way we tank yet again -- and, yet again, this will have a very positive impact on how main tanks enjoy their experience in Warcraft.

    As it stands, we've been recommending the Deep Wounds protection build because it covers everything from threat to mobility to damage reduction exceptionally well. However, the introduction of dual specs means that, like our gear, we will now have the ability to customize our talents to the encounters we're tanking. For many main tanks, balancing everything in a single build will no longer be the ideal to shoot for.

    Full Protection is your first and most important build. As Xav pointed out several weeks ago, our Protection builds will now be going deeper into Fury and Protection rather than Arms. This will give access to survivability-oriented talents such as Improved Demoralizing Shout, and this is fine because most encounters do not put us in danger of losing aggro. We will be using this build for the great majority of progression encounters.

    This is a good idea because we'll be able to balance it out with a secondary talent build. Since the primary build will already excel at survivability and AOE tanking, our secondary build is left as our Threat build. However, Deep Wounds Protection is not the best Threat build available to Warriors -- Unrelenting Assault is.

    It's worth noting that much of the initial feedback I received on this was from posters who felt Deep Wounds Protection would be their secondary build. I understand this sentiment. However, the counter-argument to this is that a higher survivability Protection build is going to trump Deep Wounds Protection in virtually every situation until you hit an encounter like Hodir, where Threat suddenly becomes very important. Just like gearing, I think we'll be better served by creating builds that excel at encounter types rather than builds that are balanced.



    Our Concerns
    By presenting this video and this discussion, we've acknowledged that we run the risk of misleading some of our readers. More specifically, we're concerned that people aren't going to take the drawbacks to this build seriously. Please do.
    1. You are hurting your raid and selling yourself short as a tank if you try to use this build on most bosses simply because it has an easier rotation -- full Protection is still your primary spec for encounters where survivability matters but aggro is not as big a concern.
    2. You should not use this in raids unless Sunder Armor or Expose Armor is readily available from at least one other source. Pay special attention to that if you're considering this for a 10-man.
    3. You cannot get this spec working without at or near full 25-man gear, ideally with a good selection to create a specialized set.
    4. You cannot min/max this spec if you aren't willing to take the time to min/max your gear set.
    With that said, the advantages of this build are very real. I know there's been a lot of discussion about this on the site and elsewhere in the community (Veneretio's blog, for one). We started discussing and refining the spec back in mid-January. Part of why we've avoided promoting it too much in the past was because it was not a competitive build in an environment where respecs were not readily available.


    The Use of Shield Slam
    In the movie, you'll see I use Shield Slam frequently as part of my rotation, which is contradictory to the advice I give that you leave it out unless you hit a dry spell. This was a mistake in my previous rotation based on the UI animation of Revenge, which led me to believe Revenge was staying on a 1.5s GCD while other abilities were only on a 1s GCD after using Revenge. In other words, I had hurt my own DPS by using Shield Slam in most of these situations, so don't look at the movie and model your ability usage after it.


    Macros
    I referred to a Revenge and Shield Slam macro in the movie. Here's what I'm using.

    Revenge & Heroic Strike
    #showtooltip Revenge
    /cast Revenge
    /cast Heroic Strike
    /startattack

    This is safe to use so long as Revenge is keeping a solid up-time. Be careful that you don't continue hitting this if Revenge fails to proc so you don't deplete your rage pool.


    Shield Slam & Shield Block
    #showtooltip Shield Slam
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
    /cast Shield Block
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Show()
    /cast Shield Slam
    /startattack

    Use this immediately if Revenge doesn't proc. Activating Shield Block dramatically increases the chance the next incoming attack will be Dodged, Blocked, or Parried. (Note that it doesn't guarantee it since attacks can still Miss)

  2. #2
    infinite revenge+heroic strike spam!

  3. #3
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    More info is up. Movie is up. Will be editing more in.

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    you can mana drain gothik aduring phase one, he regens mana at like 2mp5 and will melee all throughout phase 2

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    One thing I found Cider is that while grinding, you don't necessarily need the second mob hitting you really.

    With the Block Glyph and the HS and Revenge glyphs, I found that if I ever got into a dry spiel with Revenge, I'd hit shield block to just get myself to block more often. This would light revenge up more often. I dunno, I never needed a second mob beating on me while i was killing st00f. I just used my CD to keep my rotation alive i suppose.

    Which probably isn't a good thing while raiding. I just thought i'd add that caveat for information purposes.

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  6. #6
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    I've been itching to test this build out on 10 man 3d, i wasn't sure if it was the best best due to the lack of survivability as a full protection tank.

    But with the added threat and damage I think it would be worth trying.

    This video answered a lot of questions of mine,I really enjoyed it!

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    wow, that's totally...insane i'll give it a try right away.

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    I understand the focus here (and frankly, most of you here =D) is level 80/sweet gear stuff, but any thoughts on this for reg 5mans/heroics/even pre-80 for 70s levelling?

    I'm guessing probably not so much well as I'm 78 I might fit it perfectly for a test as I'm just missing the two optional points - I know I'd be jumping the gun with it a bit but it sounds fun :}

    Keeping in mind I'm dipping down in my aoe [and aoe aggro] of course.
    I get I'll be a little low in the great avoidance #s, but it still looks good enough to try

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krenian View Post
    One thing I found Cider is that while grinding, you don't necessarily need the second mob hitting you really.

    With the Block Glyph and the HS and Revenge glyphs, I found that if I ever got into a dry spiel with Revenge, I'd hit shield block to just get myself to block more often. This would light revenge up more often. I dunno, I never needed a second mob beating on me while i was killing st00f. I just used my CD to keep my rotation alive i suppose.

    Which probably isn't a good thing while raiding. I just thought i'd add that caveat for information purposes.
    I think he was more referring to grinding on caster that don't hit you very often, if at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreg View Post
    I think he was more referring to grinding on caster that don't hit you very often, if at all.
    I have a very difficult time w/ rage against a single target when I'm farming. Anything that is stunnable feels like it's letting itself be stunned just to piss me off. (That was directed at Krenian!)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    I have a very difficult time w/ rage against a single target when I'm farming. Anything that is stunnable feels like it's letting itself be stunned just to piss me off. (That was directed at Krenian!)
    Dumb luck is dumb IMO. I didn't find the stun to be too much of an issue and i'd just pop Bloodrage or something or another to keep my rage up high.

    Most of my fights I'd run in, let the guy smack me...but as soon as revenge popped up, I have it macro'ed to HS and I went to town. I could hit revenge at least 3 times with HS hitting as well and just decimate things dead fast enough.

    I see the worth of having something beat on you though for a caster though, for sure. I just dislike something hitting me and I'm doing nothing about it. I find myself doing that on my Death Knight and then absolutely raging and killing both of them off because I dislike them hitting on me.

    Hrm..now that you mention it..I wonder if I had a mob running after me while I fought another mob to get my Rune Strike to constantly come up, if I could get a Relentless Assault type deal going because of it. It works on the same mechanics of Revenge without having to deal with a stun.

    Hrm, the possibilities here are intriguing.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    I have a very difficult time w/ rage against a single target when I'm farming. Anything that is stunnable feels like it's letting itself be stunned just to piss me off. (That was directed at Krenian!)
    mmm true good point if we're spamming revenge, the stun off imp revenge becomes that much more of an issue vs 1 opponent and could get annoying

    shame we can't get the stun separately and opt out for this kind of a build

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKaz View Post
    I understand the focus here (and frankly, most of you here =D) is level 80/sweet gear stuff, but any thoughts on this for reg 5mans/heroics/even pre-80 for 70s levelling?

    I'm guessing probably not so much well as I'm 78 I might fit it perfectly for a test as I'm just missing the two optional points - I know I'd be jumping the gun with it a bit but it sounds fun :}

    Keeping in mind I'm dipping down in my aoe [and aoe aggro] of course.
    I get I'll be a little low in the great avoidance #s, but it still looks good enough to try

    This is not a build for 5 mans and definately not the best for leveling. You have little to no AoE threat which is what most 5 mans are about. This is pretty much a boss tanking spec only. You can hold up to 2 maybe 3 mobs but you have to hit each one single target to do so. You don't get improved Tclap for good AoE threat.
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  14. #14
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    you also have to use sunder armor instead of devistate, and you don't have the imp slow effect of imp Tclap. so no it not really a good build for 5 or maybe even 10 mans.

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    Also, I would recommend Lavanthor's Talisman - Item - World of Warcraft to be used in this spec. This will increase your block rating significantly allowing for more revenges, and will give you upwards of 9-10k shield slams. With revenge lighting up as quick as it does, you should be able to get 3-4 big shield slams with this trinket and shield block both up.
    This somewhat goes against what cider says about saving shield block & shield slam for dry patches, But depending on the boss it should increase your DPS/TPS using it every 2 minutes when the trinket is off cooldown.
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  16. #16
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    Thanks much for the video Cider. I had been toying with trying this build, and you have answered 90% of my questions. It should be quite a boon for those of us like myself who frequently run 10 mans with fewer than the requisite numbers of raiders and are looking to pitch in a bit more on DPS.

    I do have a couple of questions you might know the answer to though:

    1.) Does the 20% damage boost to revenge added to UA on the PTR stack with the 20% from Improved Revenge in Prot? Given that this build seems to have viability pre 3.1 this would merely be icing on the cake, but i was curious.

    2.) Is the target dodge/block/parry number you cited for 25 man content? If so, is there any substantial difference in what one would aim for in the 10 man versions?

    Thanks again for the hard work -Haru

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    Macro looks like:
    #showtooltip Lavanthor's Talisman
    /use Lavanthor's Talisman
    /cast Shield Block
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubzil View Post
    Also, I would recommend Lavanthor's Talisman - Item - World of Warcraft to be used in this spec. This will increase your block rating significantly allowing for more revenges, and will give you upwards of 9-10k shield slams. With revenge lighting up as quick as it does, you should be able to get 3-4 big shield slams with this trinket and shield block both up.
    This somewhat goes against what cider says about saving shield block & shield slam for dry patches, But depending on the boss it should increase your DPS/TPS using it every 2 minutes when the trinket is off cooldown.
    There's really a lot of unexplored territory in terms of gear theory. You're probably on to something smart w/ this.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruka View Post
    1.) Does the 20% damage boost to revenge added to UA on the PTR stack with the 20% from Improved Revenge in Prot? Given that this build seems to have viability pre 3.1 this would merely be icing on the cake, but i was curious.
    I assume so but I haven't tested this on the PTR yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruka View Post
    2.) Is the target dodge/block/parry number you cited for 25 man content? If so, is there any substantial difference in what one would aim for in the 10 man versions?
    They'd be basically the same. The 70% target is what seems to work for minimal dry spells. I don't think there are many (any?) bosses that have different attack speeds in their 10-man versions, so the number that's good for a 25-man or 10-man should be identical.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubzil View Post
    Also, I would recommend Lavanthor's Talisman - Item - World of Warcraft to be used in this spec. This will increase your block rating significantly allowing for more revenges, and will give you upwards of 9-10k shield slams. With revenge lighting up as quick as it does, you should be able to get 3-4 big shield slams with this trinket and shield block both up.
    This somewhat goes against what cider says about saving shield block & shield slam for dry patches, But depending on the boss it should increase your DPS/TPS using it every 2 minutes when the trinket is off cooldown.

    I miscalculated, you do not get sword and board with this build, so you will get 2 big shield slams before shield block wears off which may still make this worthwhile, but may be better used when you see a dry patch in your revenges.
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