boss parry haste, etc

[Bully Bull]

so i'm not sure where but my guild is saying that bosses have different parry percentages... i have no clue where they are getting this or the numbers... they're saying bosses have like 10% and ones like saph and sarth have 14%+

EJ, Tankspot, and others have confirmed that the parry cap is 14% regardless even on the training dummy

I think they are confused about the blue post about parry haste and how it varies per boss.

any one have any data on if bosses do have a different parry % or if the minimum is just as the target dummy which is 14%ish

it started basically by me wanting mark of norgannon when i already have 11% expertise and they're saying i don't need it cause i'm capped and there's no need for it... but i think otherwise.

[Aethraen]

Your guild is wrong in their assumptions. All there is to it. If you run WWS or any type of meter, you can just as easily show them you still get parried with 11%

The ONLY boss I'm aware of that had a different parry rate than everything else was Morogrim Tidewalker in SSC. (Granted I never tanked him and the guild I was in at the time never used WWS so I could never check to verify it)

[squats]

Your guild is wrong in their assumptions. All there is to it. If you run WWS or any type of meter, you can just as easily show them you still get parried with 11%

The ONLY boss I'm aware of that had a different parry rate than everything else was Morogrim Tidewalker in SSC. (Granted I never tanked him and the guild I was in at the time never used WWS so I could never check to verify it)

patchwerk isnt parry hasted either, and i dont think Maexxna, but im not sure about her.

the % parry isnt changed from boss to boss. its the same, they have 14% chance to parry

[Satorri]

There are several bosses who don't parry haste, or are somewhat less of a pain when they do (how often have you seen Gothik melee >.>).

The question I have is why are you interested, or is it just to settle the debate. You can generally assume that bosses will have a 12-14% parry chance, but I wouldn't recommend stacking expertise to avoid that, above the soft cap (26, 6.4%) is generally a smart number and that'll make a big dent in parry chances.

Parry haste itself doesn't seem to be quite as big a deal now that crushing blows are gone. Parry haste may marginally increase dmg, or more than marginally if you have no expertise, but it's not the end of the world, or enough to make over 26 expertise a priority.

[brain9h]

I think parry haste is a GIGANTIC factor in survivability. What else could burst you to death?

Honestly, in the PTR I've seen melee hits in the 17k-30k range... you wouldn't want to give the enemy extra attack speed under these numbers

[Satorri]

True, but how many of them parry haste, and do you understand how parry haste works? I don't know the answer to the first, but I generally totally agree with you that there's no reason you would want to give the boss any more parries than you have to.

I just haven't seen it become a noticeable increase in dmg taken yet. If/when Ulduar changes that, I'll be right on board with you. Blizz seems to have toned down the mechanic a bit, potentially for that very reason, that they didn't want there to be THAT severe a burst liability, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

[Daiyara]

Sorry to "resurrect" an old topic, but I have two questions about parry/haste. Maybe I am loosing some basic tanking rules and I would really appreciate if you can put some light on this:

1-. What bosses do parry/haste? For example, Steelbreaker in hard mode (I choose you Steelbreaker) hits really hard, so a parry/haste can easily be a cause of wipe. We have just killed him yesterday and sometimes it was complicated to identify the reason of the tank's dead.

2-. Can another raid member cause a parry/haste or only the tanking character? I assume that everybody should be hitting it from the back, but I would like to confirm this idea.

Thanks in advance !

[Wingnut]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the Wrath bosses now have a 30 second internal parry haste cooldown, so that they can't parry haste more than once every 30 seconds. Parry hasting is FAR from the deadly issue that it was in BC, and is all but out of the equation completely, so it really doesn't matter anymore. Expertise seems to be more for threat now than anything and has very little impact on survivability.

[Satorri]

I haven't heard anything of the sort Wingnut, where'd you hear that from?

Daiyara:
1.) The only boss I can say for certain does not parry haste (in Ulduar) is Ignis, I've been told that Auriaya does, but I haven't actually checked logs to confirm.

2.) The boss parrying an attack is all it takes to parry-haste, so anyone dps or tank can cause the effect. This is one of two main reasons why melee dps are to attack from behind unless they cannot for other reasons (such as Kolo or Auri).

[Wingnut]

I'll see if I can find where I read that. It could have just been some PTR stuff that never made it to the patch or false information, hence the "Someone correct me if I'm wrong", because I couldn't confirm it. I'll do some serarching and see if there are any credible sources on the subject.

[lyd]

Independent of human error, there is a very small chance statistically that a parry-haste will ever cause a catastrophic event chain that kills the tank before a tank-saving heal can go off. we're talking alot smaller than even .1%, once you account for avoidance, dead-zone probability, and mitigation rotations. there is also evidence to suggest that bosses who hit hard and fast enough to 2-shot a tank off a parry-hasted melee have parry-haste turned off (Ignis, Patchwerk, possibly General Vezax based on parses from another thread). it doesn't make sense that they'd do this for some hard-hitting bosses and not for others, as that would seem way too arbitrary for Blizzard's normally "intent-driven" design. unfortunately, there simply hasn't been enough testing done by the community to confirm this.

[Daiyara]

Well... all these questions have arisen because last week we have accomplished the "I choose you Steelbreaker" hardmode achievement in raid-25.

However, it was a bit tough to see that, once Steelbreaker is the last remaining boss and the deadly buff starts, he's able to kill you really fast with attacks which are harder than 60k. Now.. imagine it with parry/haste and it's a real pain.

That's why I started wondering about the parry/haste mechanics. I guess there are too many rumors around but no confirmed data about it.

[Mookey]

Auriaya does parry haste however it's not deadly. Never seen it from Kologarn, altho he CAN parry. Parry haste from Vezax is (can be) deadly, not sure about Steelbreaker, Thorim and Hodir.

How does parry haste works?
When Boss/player parry an attack, the remaining time on his current swing is reduced by 40% of his weapon speed, unless this would result in a reduction to less than 20% of his swing time remaining.

As most people said... Parry haste is there, try to minimize it's damage, and have it in mind, live with it, get expertise over the dodge cap, and go somewhere in between 26 and 54, live with it... Make sure your melee understand mechanix, but don't make them be afraid that much of it... Don't make them gaypiled on you of course. Parry hasted attack is not Overpower also... It can miss, be dodged/paried/blocked, so prolly many times you haven't even see it...

If you have boss with 2.0+ swing timer that hit like truck, where game mechanic expect you to be in front of him alone know that there are parry haste for sure, work your experise higher and you're gonna be fine.

[Hypatia]

That's why I started wondering about the parry/haste mechanics. I guess there are too many rumors around but no confirmed data about it.

Part of the reason that data about parry haste isn't wide-spread any more is that Blizzard noticed when tanks really started talking about "parrygibbing" back in BC and did something about it. There, it was a specific problem with certain fights where melee got bounced all over the place, as well as fights where multiple tanks were required to stand in front of a boss together.

There are two reasons it's less of an issue now--first, Blizzard started to explicitly remove it from bosses that have to be attacked from the front. It's not always there, but it's there a good amount.

More importantly, Blizzard removed crushing blows. That's significant because one of the biggest ways parry haste would splatter tanks was by burning through a warrior tank's Shield Block charges, then hitting again for a crushing blow. That makes things worse than the current situation because you had bosses not only hitting a lot all at once, but hitting a lot all at once and then ending with a really BIG hit.


Because of that, I think a lot of tanks don't worry about it so much any more. It's usually enough to say "melee DPS, make sure to attack from behind" (although most melee DPS are smarter about that these days just in general).


Finally: The best way to be sure about parry haste is to check back on your combat logs, particularly after a big burst of damage kills you. Look for a situation where the boss suddenly attacked much faster when he's parrying several attacks in a row. (Look at the time delta between hits and see if it's smaller than it normally is.)

You can also look up other peoples' combat logs for a boss on an online log parsing site for data before the fact, or if you don't have good data yourself. (Browsing around a bit, I don't see any obvious evidence one way or the other for Steelbreaker.)

[Dragaan]

Was this 14% just put in with wotlk? I remember back when expertise first came out, people were claiming that the parry rate changed from boss to boss. I also remember many of the top tanks saying to gear for 15%+ to be completely immune to parry and I recall specific fights where I tried to get away with 14.5-15% and still got 1 or 2 parries in a fight (still talking BC). This is the first I've heard that the numbers changed.