+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 130

Thread: Satorri's 3.1 Build Shop

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    melbourne.au
    Posts
    543
    Thanks for the (wall) of info Satorri, I was looking for advice on WotN and you answered it to a T. I'll use those points elsewhere.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    Posts
    256
    Satorri, I noticed your characters spec is now different from the spec you have linked. I was wondering if you like this new one better? just trying out a different combo?

    Ive got a DK alt and I am currently trying out Blood as a tank spec. Came here and noticed the difference and wondered why.

    Thanks for your time.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    19
    Concerning Blood threat:

    I've always been a die hard Frost tank, it feels like such a solid playstyle. I MT and we're working on Yogg (10) at the moment. But every time I read this thread I'm drawn to Satorri's metaphorical flame. So I jump on, swap my DPS spec out to a Blood tanking spec and pound away on the poor dummies. If I want a more realistic feel, I'll drag some alts through a Heroic to test the spec out.

    But I can just never match the TPS that I can with my Frost build.

    There are (at least) two possible reasons:
    - I suck at playing Blood (entirely possible)
    - Blood relies heavily on physical damage, and I don't have the gear/debuffs to make Blood feasible.

    I know the basic rotation, but I always feel like there's something I'm missing. Does anyone have any Blood specific tips relating to playstyle or gear that might give my Blood TPS a leg up? I'd love to give this build a shot on our next Vezax kill.

    XO Telexx.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    111
    Well, if it makes you feel any better at all... I absolutely suck with frost in comparison to Blood or Unholy.

    Aside from that, right now, I'd say it's more of a stat thing. With blood you aren't given as much cushion as you are with frost particularly regarding more physical damage over spell damage.

    Hit and Expertise are pretty important. Well that goes for any tank really, but with frost you have abilities such as Frost Strike and Howling Blast, that grant you a little more margin of error with how you have to focus a lot of your gearing.

    Spell hit i suppose is pretty important with Frost.

    But, with blood being predominantly all melee aside from Death Coil and Corpse Explosion/Unholy Blight if you spec for them, 19 expertise isn't going to get you far in terms of how much threat you can produce from the spec.

    Recently I've noticed a massive increase in Threat due to a few different talents and glyphs I've been mixing around. And I'd have to say the Glyph of Death Strike combined with Runic Power Mastery makes for a beautiful combination to provide me with a good RP Dump and have a relatively good buff to Death Strike Damage without sacrificing a lot of threat uptime.

    I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the talents and glyphs in the blood tree to find the synergies. Which before weren't as clear to me as they are in frost and unholy.

    Honestly the first time I tried blood tanking, i felt gimpy. But, due to recent ideas and talent swapping, i went back from my unholy build to a blood build, and focused a lot more on how to make it work.

    And I haven't noticed a significant decrease in threat producing capabilities between the two builds. Granted, my Unholy build had a much higher Spiked Threat, it also had a lot less utility, and a whole lot less survivability.
    Everything is Better with More Armor
    Raiding Lingo of the 21st Century © Only on Tankspot

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Indeed Pruke, I discussed in later responses why I changed what I did, but I never updated my original link. I have now. =)

    Telix, I think the big key is that with any spec as a DK the tools and rotations are somewhat unique, as are the advanced skills that develop out of playing it a lot until it becomes instinctual.

    Rialev, the glyph of DS has settled into something that has a very low cap for RP buffing (2% per 2 RP up to 25% increase. That means your DS is fully buffed when you have 25 RP. I just DC in blackouts but keep my RP total above 45 so RS's won't diminish my DS hits. I do still love the glyph though. I'm just waiting on my second t8.5 tanking piece that I can afford to wear and I'll be swapping that to glyph of RS to get a bigger threat buff. I really want a 4th slot so I can sport DS too. =(

    Blood is fairly simple, and it doesn't require anything that the other trees do not. Remember that Expertise is always important since 3 of your major 4 threat tools are parriable, hit rating is always valuable, and beyond that, Strength gets you great mileage for AP value (along with Bladed Armor <3). I've been watching my numbers lately and have been feeling good. In full swing I'm up to cruising at about 4-5k with no crits, and when I get a string of HS and DS crits (which happens fairly frequently with 25-man buffs) I'll hover around 9-10k for a few CDs, that feels good to see. Not that Omen is THAT indicative, but in general I've been finding myself pulling ahead of dps and earning a strong lead even when I have to kite, that's my indicator that my threat is where I want it, and thanks to my last couple upgrades I'm at 46.8k health with full raid buffs (<3 7100 DS heals and 9400 Rune Tap heals). Now popping Vamp Blood puts me at 54k for 30 seconds, and I giggle every time.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by vine View Post
    Thanks for the (wall) of info Satorri, I was looking for advice on WotN and you answered it to a T. I'll use those points elsewhere.
    It is still an excellent talent for any zone Uld 10 or 25 level difficulty. The fact that it reduces damages going INTO 35% values makes it as valuable as it is... it can save a kill shot and allow a heal. The "spot on healers" argument never really has any weight, you can use that argument with virtually every CD talent or ability.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    It is still an excellent talent for any zone Uld 10 or 25 level difficulty. The fact that it reduces damages going INTO 35% values makes it as valuable as it is... it can save a kill shot and allow a heal. The "spot on healers" argument never really has any weight, you can use that argument with virtually every CD talent or ability.
    Given the spike damage associated with Ulduar WOTN is an excellent talent. Taking your arguments for anticipation, toughness, and blade barrier WOTN should be included in your build as well.

    This is a very interesting take on a Blood build. Instead of using Sudden Doom and SOB for more DCs (about 3rd or 4th on my WWS reports for TPS) you take DRM and subversion for HS spam. If this is indeed the synergy you are going for I recommend dropping Morbidity and CE for 3/3 WOTN and a floating point for SOB.

    The reason most people go RS glyph and 3/3 SOB is because RS has become a huge part of a Blood Tanks TPS as stated in your original post.

    My recommendation for single target tanking (for add tanking I use my dual spec):

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=9757#
    Last edited by dhthomps; 06-18-2009 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    I've never understood people advocating HS spam with Subversion when you can easily get Subversion, Sudden Doom, and Morbidity etc.
    RS alone makes up the majority of TPS with a properly glyphed tank, so people that skip the RS glyph boggle me as well.

    Rune Tap is a ridiculously overrated ability in 99% of situations.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    I've never understood people advocating HS spam with Subversion when you can easily get Subversion, Sudden Doom, and Morbidity etc.
    RS alone makes up the majority of TPS with a properly glyphed tank, so people that skip the RS glyph boggle me as well.

    Rune Tap is a ridiculously overrated ability in 99% of situations.

    I've seen a lot of people advocating this as well, freeing up four more points. After looking at old WWS parses I consider 3/3 SoB and Rune Strike Glyph mandatory.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Hmmm, well, your concept isn't really wrong, but you seem to have some confusion about what is required and what works well together.

    1.) Scent of Blood is at its weakest for Blood. Death Coil, even with 3/3 in Morbidity is not a hard hitting move and is not worth more time or more RP to try and get more out. It fits nicely into rune blackouts when I have more than 45 RP, that's plenty. Scent of Blood is not remotely required to RS every time it procs, I do that just fine even at the start of the fight.

    2.) Sudden Doom is nice, but (read earlier posts) the effective buff even with 3/3 in Morbidity is only about half the value that MoM gives me per point (thus why I switched, described above). Just because I do not overplay DC in my build does not invalidate Morbidity. I use this spec to suit all my tanking needs (even after playing with easier aoe tanking specs), so the DnD on CD is helpful for the few fights I tank lots of things, and the DC buff is still helpful for when I dump threat. If I were to move the points they would not be to SoB. If I were going for survival I'd have to decide between Spell Deflection (for Hodir/Freya/Mimi/Ignis/Razorscale/Steelbreaker et al love) or WotN (mostly for Hodir, Vezax, and some XT/Ignis). If I were going for threat, I would have to pick more carefully since dropping Morbidity for Sudden Doom is a minor gain and there are few other threat talents of note worth grabbing. My spec is not what it is by accident or random whim.

    3.) Edge, you couldn't be more mistaken about Rune Tap. Mine heals for 9500 on average, overhealing usually is around 20%. It's not anywhere near my biggest source of heals, but being able to instantly bump my health that way is a HUGE value. Health Pots and stones are puny by comparison and can be used only once per fight.

    WotN is a good talent, to be sure, specifically in Ulduar (if you're over-geared for it, you'll find little opportunity to get much value out of it in Naxx), but I've chosen my particular balance of threat and survival in my spec and it doesn't include WotN. I'm not broken up about it.

    And anyone who questions the value of DRM or Subversion needs to actually play Blood more. DRM allows you to use both HS and BB with impunity (and HS is silly value for the cost), and allows a great deal of adaptability as your needs in the situation change. Subversion is a 9%+ damage buff for HS, which, if you use it well with DRM, is a major threat component (always my #2 at about 22-25% of my total threat).

    I did the math elsewhere, but in my gear the RS glyph is the same buffed value as the DS glyph so I haven't bothered switching. I will, however, when I get the 2-piece 8.5 set bonus comfortably (stupid hit rating).


    When all is said and done, it's hard to question this spec for me. I've been doing laughable amounts of threat, and last night on Hodir I sat at almost 59k health for about 20 seconds. Normally I am the second on the list for my incoming heals, and the first place usually won't pass me by more than 20-30%. I am very easy to heal, even through heavy beatings. My healers love me. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Hmmm, well, your concept isn't really wrong, but you seem to have some confusion about what is required and what works well together.

    1.) Scent of Blood is at its weakest for Blood. Death Coil, even with 3/3 in Morbidity is not a hard hitting move and is not worth more time or more RP to try and get more out. It fits nicely into rune blackouts when I have more than 45 RP, that's plenty. Scent of Blood is not remotely required to RS every time it procs, I do that just fine even at the start of the fight.

    2.) Sudden Doom is nice, but (read earlier posts) the effective buff even with 3/3 in Morbidity is only about half the value that MoM gives me per point (thus why I switched, described above). Just because I do not overplay DC in my build does not invalidate Morbidity. I use this spec to suit all my tanking needs (even after playing with easier aoe tanking specs), so the DnD on CD is helpful for the few fights I tank lots of things, and the DC buff is still helpful for when I dump threat. If I were to move the points they would not be to SoB. If I were going for survival I'd have to decide between Spell Deflection (for Hodir/Freya/Mimi/Ignis/Razorscale/Steelbreaker et al love) or WotN (mostly for Hodir, Vezax, and some XT/Ignis). If I were going for threat, I would have to pick more carefully since dropping Morbidity for Sudden Doom is a minor gain and there are few other threat talents of note worth grabbing. My spec is not what it is by accident or random whim.

    3.) Edge, you couldn't be more mistaken about Rune Tap. Mine heals for 9500 on average, overhealing usually is around 20%. It's not anywhere near my biggest source of heals, but being able to instantly bump my health that way is a HUGE value. Health Pots and stones are puny by comparison and can be used only once per fight.

    WotN is a good talent, to be sure, specifically in Ulduar (if you're over-geared for it, you'll find little opportunity to get much value out of it in Naxx), but I've chosen my particular balance of threat and survival in my spec and it doesn't include WotN. I'm not broken up about it.

    And anyone who questions the value of DRM or Subversion needs to actually play Blood more. DRM allows you to use both HS and BB with impunity (and HS is silly value for the cost), and allows a great deal of adaptability as your needs in the situation change. Subversion is a 9%+ damage buff for HS, which, if you use it well with DRM, is a major threat component (always my #2 at about 22-25% of my total threat).

    I did the math elsewhere, but in my gear the RS glyph is the same buffed value as the DS glyph so I haven't bothered switching. I will, however, when I get the 2-piece 8.5 set bonus comfortably (stupid hit rating).


    When all is said and done, it's hard to question this spec for me. I've been doing laughable amounts of threat, and last night on Hodir I sat at almost 59k health for about 20 seconds. Normally I am the second on the list for my incoming heals, and the first place usually won't pass me by more than 20-30%. I am very easy to heal, even through heavy beatings. My healers love me. =)

    Your arguments are laughable, at best. Anyone can get heals in with Rune Tap during lulls in incoming damage, that doesn't make it a good ability. Damage that kills tanks normally comes in spikes where reaction is sometimes impossible. The only time I have found a worthwhile use for it is Vezax hard mode.
    Rune Strike is THE premier source of single target threat. It isn't arguable, and is confirmed on every high TPS parse done by me or anyone else in a top end guild.
    Scent of Blood is the weakest ability in a blood spec. I keep it more for guarantees, less for need.
    I glyph for Death Coil, with Sudden Doom, Morbidity, and the Sigil. DCs hit for 2200ish min, with a max crit in the 6K range.

    NOT having WoTN is a joke. It's a non-reactive raid/tank saver for 3 points that works in tandem with and scales with gear and Vampiric Blood. I'm not sure what your 56K argument has to do with anything, other than misguided epeen?

    I find it very hard to take you seriously myself.
    Last edited by Edgewalker; 06-18-2009 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Apparently you haven't actually taken the time to use it well. Lulls in damage don't require healing, a 10k heal on demand is a life-saver and has been a great value to me. It is entirely a matter of player skill though, and is anything but mandatory. It is a high value when it is well-used.

    If your DC's hit for 2.2k, that's fine, though you put a glyph, sigil, and 3 talent points into it. Mine hit for 1600, and I get about 1.5% more dodge on average from my sigil (increasing those precious RS's in count, in turn bumping the uptime of the sigil), and I get that glyph slot for what suits my fancies. I use morbidity as well. I fail to see how your 600 more damage on DC makes it a no brainer?

    Rune Strike is ~30% of my threat, I've run the parses, no one is arguing that. I have also run tests and done the math on the glyphs. If you think it is cut and dry that RS is the only way to glyph then back up your irrate self-righteous hand waving with some math.

    WotN is also nice, I've never questioned that. It is not a god talent, though, it just has a nice saving feature when you're taking enough damage for your health to fluctuate that low. In Ulduar I've been tracking lately, and short of Hodir and Mimiron my health rarely goes below 16k (my threshold to trigger).

    The Hodir health comment was a celebration of health stacking, not epeen or a "better than you" statement, you on the other hand seem to be descending from intelligent or helpful discussion into insulting, condescending, and unhelpful, unsupported opinions.

    If you think I'm missing something, offer some numbers instead of unsupported chatter.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Apparently you haven't actually taken the time to use it well. Lulls in damage don't require healing, a 10k heal on demand is a life-saver and has been a great value to me. It is entirely a matter of player skill though, and is anything but mandatory. It is a high value when it is well-used.

    If your DC's hit for 2.2k, that's fine, though you put a glyph, sigil, and 3 talent points into it. Mine hit for 1600, and I get about 1.5% more dodge on average from my sigil (increasing those precious RS's in count, in turn bumping the uptime of the sigil), and I get that glyph slot for what suits my fancies. I use morbidity as well. I fail to see how your 600 more damage on DC makes it a no brainer?

    Rune Strike is ~30% of my threat, I've run the parses, no one is arguing that. I have also run tests and done the math on the glyphs. If you think it is cut and dry that RS is the only way to glyph then back up your irrate self-righteous hand waving with some math.

    WotN is also nice, I've never questioned that. It is not a god talent, though, it just has a nice saving feature when you're taking enough damage for your health to fluctuate that low. In Ulduar I've been tracking lately, and short of Hodir and Mimiron my health rarely goes below 16k (my threshold to trigger).

    The Hodir health comment was a celebration of health stacking, not epeen or a "better than you" statement, you on the other hand seem to be descending from intelligent or helpful discussion into insulting, condescending, and unhelpful, unsupported opinions.

    If you think I'm missing something, offer some numbers instead of unsupported chatter.
    I have yet to see you offer numbers yourself?
    The rune strike glyph takes an ability that is about 40% of a decently geared DK's threat and increases it by at least 10%, sometimes higher due to scaling. The other available glyph options are survivability based or irrelevant, with the DS glyph the only one coming close, but it is a minor part of threat and a minor part of any rotation.

    DC itself is useful because 1. It IS a ranged magical nuke. For Thorim hard mode it is extra snap agro when rushing through the hallway, it can be used to pick up runners on the starts of trash pulls, it can be used on Yogg-Saron P1 when picking up adds that spawn in bad locations, it scales with Singed and Storm Fury on Hodir and crits for upward of 25K. When you are repositioning a boss, unless you are a keyboard turner, you can ALWAYS throw in 2 extra DCs during the pause in their movement. If you are doing Freya hard mode or Mimiron hard mode and absolutely maximizing DPS, you can nuke the trees/adds or head without losing your own position. DC is an extremely versatile ability with a good damage range, and not maximizing that damage at virtually no cost is silly.
    Sudden Doom is in the same boat, it is cleaving AOE threat at no rune or rune power cost for 3 talent points. 15% isn't a lot, and I normally am not a fan of chance, but again, you lose virtually nothing to grab it.

    WOTN is a worse ability for easy mode Ulduar, I will grant you that. The only times a tank will come close to dying are Plasma Blast or Vezax if the healers are sleeping. Again though, as you slip into hard mode 10s or 25s, or if you have a slower healer core for normals, it becomes an absolutely essential talent. Thorim will unbalance base for 55K at higher stacks, Steelbreaker will Fusion Punch for 58K (a good example of when I drop Scent of Blood for Spell Deflection) and heals will be slower from increased raid AOE. It IS the difference between a kill or a wipe in a lot of situations.

    As for Rune Tap, if I EVER die, it's in a 1 to 0 second window from Parry Haste or back to back abilities at high stacks. I rarely would have the Blood Runes available to save me, and in certain situations it wouldn't be within human reaction time especially at 2-- ms to use it. It's a fine ability for Ulduar 10, though I disagree with spending 4 points on it, but again for the truly difficult fights it isn't really worthwhile for min/maxing threat and survivability and damage.

    That being said, there are certain player options that won't shift the outcome of a fight in any direction and are player choice, regardless of what the "better" choice is. +30 Stamina / 15 Resilience to shoulders is the best DK shoulder enchant for virtually everything in the game, but people who want to grind out and replace it with the Sons of Hodir enchant won't die in a fight because they took it. People that don't take WOTN will be fine 90% of the time without it. People with less than optimal professions, poor gem choices, and cheaper enchants will be fine 90% of the time as well.
    It's when you add up all the little things, all the little "player choices", that you distinguish between a good tank and a great tank, and that's what tankspot was always about, and I hope still is.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    That being said, there are certain player options that won't shift the outcome of a fight in any direction and are player choice, regardless of what the "better" choice is. +30 Stamina / 15 Resilience to shoulders is the best DK shoulder enchant for virtually everything in the game, but people who want to grind out and replace it with the Sons of Hodir enchant won't die in a fight because they took it. People that don't take WOTN will be fine 90% of the time without it. People with less than optimal professions, poor gem choices, and cheaper enchants will be fine 90% of the time as well.

    It's when you add up all the little things, all the little "player choices", that you distinguish between a good tank and a great tank, and that's what tankspot was always about, and I hope still is.
    You fail to prove anything. You're working from the assumption you're right, and not providing anything to really back it up. I've played with both the Gladiator and Hordir enchants, and still debate - but ultimately, I feel it's a wash. For a very specific fight, I can see one or the other, but I'ld also have a fight specific gear set-up with the appropriate enchant(s). I like stamina, a lot, but that doesn't mean I want to give up all my avoidance merely for ~400 (pre 3.2 nerfs) hitpoints.

    What I find interesting is you're quoting 55k unbalancing hits from Thorim, which will still do over 46K with WotN proc'ing. Ergo, you're either BS'ing or you're amazingly geared without an armory link. (Gee, .85*55 = 46.75, if you need the math.)

    BTW, Imp Runetap is amazing on Vezax. Try it sometime, the healers love not having to spam heal... though it helps if the interrupters are reliable

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Esch View Post
    You fail to prove anything. You're working from the assumption you're right, and not providing anything to really back it up. I've played with both the Gladiator and Hordir enchants, and still debate - but ultimately, I feel it's a wash. For a very specific fight, I can see one or the other, but I'ld also have a fight specific gear set-up with the appropriate enchant(s). I like stamina, a lot, but that doesn't mean I want to give up all my avoidance merely for ~400 (pre 3.2 nerfs) hitpoints.

    What I find interesting is you're quoting 55k unbalancing hits from Thorim, which will still do over 46K with WotN proc'ing. Ergo, you're either BS'ing or you're amazingly geared without an armory link. (Gee, .85*55 = 46.75, if you need the math.)

    BTW, Imp Runetap is amazing on Vezax. Try it sometime, the healers love not having to spam heal... though it helps if the interrupters are reliable
    What exactly did I fail to prove? Avoidance is on strict diminishing returns. You can no longer reach the values you could in TBC to make it worthwhile to stack. Stamina is constant, helps with the magical components of fights, and is not subject to RNG.
    Everything else in my post was sound and correct.
    I am around 51,000 life with buffs. So yes, it helps.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Here's one of my raid nights from this week:
    Ulduar 25: Razorscale to Auriaya

    To highlight, DS is 13% of my threat and 71% of my healing (glyph doesn't buff healing, but it's an indicator of how much I use it, buffing damage when I use it to heal is an overall buff), while DC is 3%. This is a reflection, of course, of the fact that my playstyle is cause and result of my spec, they're linked. You DC more, I'm sure, because you actually try to play to it. That said, for me a 15% increase in DC's would be a 0.45% increase in my threat. As for Sudden Doom, if I could somehow take that without losing MoM (which would be a major threat hit with a 20-25% crit rate on average with my big hitters), it would generate roughly 154 additional DC's over the course of the raid, with my setup (not glyphed) that would be an added 2.1% more total damage/threat done for 3 points invested. (I was not remembering well, by the way, my DC's hit for about 1700-1800 on average, but also note the crit rate, since it is a spell is only 13%).

    If you want to see more in depth breakdowns look at the previous pages of this thread, that's why I made it in the first place.

    To look at glyph options based on my numbers above:
    Glyph of DS = I am currently using, it buffs my DS damage by 25% (since I always keep my RP over 45), so it is accounting for 2.5% of my total damage/threat.

    Glyph of DC = this would increase my DC damage to about 2020 average. With my spec that would be a 0.45% increase in damage/threat. If my spec somehow incorporated Sudden Doom (though I would take points from elsewhere that would reduce my threat otherwise) I would get 0.7% more damage threat.

    Glyph of RS = which I have been planning on swapping to when I get the 2 pc t8 set bonus, I've just been complacent so far, in my current setup would increase my RS crit chance by 10%. Using my WWS that would mean that RS would add about 1.5% more damage, 2.3% more threat, so it is smaller than DS.

    Out of curiosity, if I had the 2 pc set bonus giving me 10% more RS damage, THEN took the RS glyph: The 2 pc set bonus would be a 1.5% damage increase on its own (2.25% more threat), so the glyph would then be a 1.65% improvement in damage, and 2.5% increase in threat. So, unless I start cranking up my avoidance, or start using DS less, it's still not a gain.

    Oh, and about sigils, since I have proper numbers in front of me:
    Using the Sigil of the Vengeful Heart would increase my DC damage by about 19%, or a total threat increase of 0.57%.

    Sigil of Deflection had a 36% uptime from my time in combat (though that's including things where I wasn't tanking) and gives me about 2.6% dodge which averages out to a 0.94% overall dodge increase. 1% less dodge means 1% fewer RS procs, in gross generalization, so that would be 0.23% lost threat plus the survival loss (I generally care more about the survival anyway, but it is actually adding threat for tanks).

    According a threat parse of the entire night, HS matched RS for % of overall threat actually edging it out slightly on total threat. On fights and fractions of fights where I'm the only tank, though, I had thought it's usually higher.

    Something that is interesting to me is that the heal on DS was functionally about a 10% increase in threat for the strike added onto the damage, that's helpful for other calculations so I'll record that here for posterity. With my DS's hitting for about 5k on a crit adjusted average, factoring heals that's as if it were a 5.5k hit for comparing with Oblit, though Oblit would still do nicely if I could keep Subversion and MoM. Ok now I'm just rambling.

    Counter-point, Edge?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    What exactly did I fail to prove? Avoidance is on strict diminishing returns. You can no longer reach the values you could in TBC to make it worthwhile to stack. Stamina is constant, helps with the magical components of fights, and is not subject to RNG.
    Everything else in my post was sound and correct.
    I am around 51,000 life with buffs. So yes, it helps.
    Two issues, I don't think you understand how diminishing returns play out, they make avoidance a linear return on investment for your time-to-live, making it equal to, not worse than stamina. There are also other posts in this forum you should read about the effective buff of improving avoidance, which actually leave it slightly better than linear, which stamina can still not achieve.

    I'm a blood tank, I appreciate that health is where it's at for the tree, but your statement is half mislead.

    On a side note, it sounds like you have awesome gear to be at 51k health in raid buffs, care to share an armory link?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Two issues, I don't think you understand how diminishing returns play out, they make avoidance a linear return on investment for your time-to-live, making it equal to, not worse than stamina. There are also other posts in this forum you should read about the effective buff of improving avoidance, which actually leave it slightly better than linear, which stamina can still not achieve.

    I'm a blood tank, I appreciate that health is where it's at for the tree, but your statement is half mislead.

    On a side note, it sounds like you have awesome gear to be at 51k health in raid buffs, care to share an armory link?


    I wrote an extremely large reply to both of your posts but deleted it.
    I've been contributing to tanking sites for a long name and it's a pretty easy call to tell when you are hitting a wall with someone.
    I also think you are missing the point of half of what I say entirely, and completely don't understand the values of Stamina vs. Avoidance currently in WOTLK.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Reading you loud and clear. If you want to post opinions without support, while remaining anonymous, that is your right, but the community will hold your opinions with the appropriate weight.

    Take care.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Reading you loud and clear. If you want to post opinions without support, while remaining anonymous, that is your right, but the community will hold your opinions with the appropriate weight.

    Take care.
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Previously a level 70 warrior named Edgewalker and a level 70 feral druid named Karlrove.

    Not anonymous, just don't feel like arguing in a wobbly circle.


    Also WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay - It's a better TPS evaluation site, and talent comparison site. It lets you breakdown your threat values and the threat values of multiple other tanks for every encounter, across the board, and compare talents, glyphs, and itemization.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts