+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 107

Thread: The Future of Heroic Strike

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    132
    Heroic Strike as toggled ability would be good for playability, if mechanics stay as they are. I think the best mechanics change they could do is make a change to the rage intake formula to scale with damage from 0 to a small amount like 30 and award a base 5 or 10 rage from all swings avoided, blocked or taken. This would accomplish two different things. It would help to normalize rage on avoidance to avoid dry spells and it would help making the scaling based on damage smaller. In order to make this work, abilities would need to be adjusted to make GCD abilities provide more threat (Devastate buff?), but in the end Heroic Strike would be more of a skill decision again and single target threat would be more reliable.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    101
    no need in makaing any big changes, it could have massive consequences. Instead, lets just cure the spamming problem and allow it to macro'd on and off
    Ricovega
    Adrastus III - EU Skullcrusher

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,548
    Personally, I don't think I want to have to get a special keyboard to be effective without straining myself. I think threat through damage is a good route to take. I'm not saying we need a massive buff to our dps, but a little buff to devastate and a buff to our threat coefficient would probably be enough. I know there's nothing I love about the current function of Heroic Strike.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Kuna, Idaho
    Posts
    955
    Encouraging them to fiddle with rage was not a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalken View Post
    "I'll let the dragon hit me in the face, you stab it in the ass."

  5. #45
    Currently, the only solution to lessening the strain of spamming HS is to throw it onto the mousewheel. That, or macro it to all your abilities, but we all know how inefficient that is.

    I'd love to see a change to the mechanics of HS, but as it sits currently it's not that much of a burden as long as you set it to the mousewheel.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    786
    Heroic Strike in it's current form is the one thing that makes tanking intense ever since crushing blows were removed.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    76
    I do macro it to revenge, but, with full rage, its spam, spam, spam.
    "Resistance is Futile"

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    275
    hitting one button mindlessly a few times a second makes tanking 'intense'?
    Hopefully Ulduar -content- will make it 'intense'. The fluid changing GCD cycle with S&B and propper use of long CD attacks is actually interesting.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Heroic Strike in it's current form is the one thing that makes tanking intense ever since crushing blows were removed.
    If you want it to be intense, why are you binding it to mousewheel? Bind it to shift-num-lock if you want to fight your UI that badly.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Roana View Post
    That, of course, would exacerbate the problem, not solve it.
    Obvious post is obvious. Thanks, I *have* tanked before.

    I was addressing ways to make it a better tool than it is now given the existing discussion of de-spamming it. Obviously if it hits harder you'll want to spam it, but if it gets a cooldown like shield slam, or some other mechanism like escalating costs similar to arcane barrage, then it won't be spammable as current, even in an infinite rage scenario.

    De-spamming it has to go hand in hand with making it hit far harder than it does in order to compensate. Ideally, it should also go in conjunction with making devastate suck less.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    119
    Even longer term we need to think about whether we're even happy with this model of tank takes damage and converts it into threat or not.

    this is why DK tanks are really OP and the other 3 are broken. In time this mechanic is what will set them apart from the others even more so then now. the fact that DKs get better with gear and the other 3 tanks have issues with being over geared is imo one of the major problems with the tanks.

    fix this and they've gone a long ways towards making all the tanks on the same lvl.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    390
    Why not add a 'second tier' Heroic Strike, aka Valourous Strike?

    Basically a harder hitting skill that uses more rage. Thus, less spamming at high-rage moments (if balanced properly so it's not used on every swing, in any case), and the option to gear down to regular Striking at low rage moments.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    1,390
    Oooh I like Durando's idea. Kinda like a mini-execute, maybe not using ALL the rage but a high amount.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    8
    Probably shouldn't just make it use "more" rage, since that will be hard to balance...

    How about making it use a fixed percentage (with an absolute minimum of 10 or so) of your rage? Quite some nice scaling possibilities and finally some way to get rid of some rage without making it impossible to use for overgeared tanks...
    Give a man a fire and he's warm for only a day.
    Set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!

  15. #55

    toggling?

    who has it separately keybound? I have it macro'd into my top 4 abilities:

    /cast !Heroic Strike

    put that at the end of any macro and it'll queue it up all the time. And I'd watch it with the G15 toggle button, could definitely get in trouble with that for automation.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwayne View Post
    How about making it use a fixed percentage (with an absolute minimum of 10 or so) of your rage? Quite some nice scaling possibilities and finally some way to get rid of some rage without making it impossible to use for overgeared tanks...
    Could go for that. Or give it a rage cost of 80, to make it a killer rage dumper. Might even make it usable for dps'ers, if they are unable to Execute (though I'd make it cause less damage, and generate alot more threat, making it a risky skill to be used), though having that much rage when you're dps'ing probably isn't ideal (though it would make it a great pvp skill to discourage ganging up on an Arms Warrior - imagine a possible one/two hit kill if attacked by half a dozen people at once!).

  17. #57
    Rather than trying to fix the symptom that Heroic Strike is spammy, you have to ask what is the HS mechanic trying to do.

    If infinite rage situations, even after HS spam, are considered OK, then HS has no purpose. It should just be removed from the game and the warrior's other abilities buffed so that they have the same output as if they were spamming HS. A toggle is not wanted, not because it's good or bad UI (it's bad) but because a mechanic of the form "turn this on when rage per second is over X" does not represent any kind of interesting skill or tactic.

    If the intended design is that different situations have different amounts of rage intake and the warrior is supposed to adjust to that, then HS has a purpose but it's broken. it's not broken because it requires too many keystrokes per minute, or rather that's the least that is wrong with it. It's broken as a rage / output regulator for these reasons:
    • The rage bar fills up, and to some extent empties, too suddenly for any kind of rage management based on average intake to be meaningful.
    • Converting every white attack into HS provides only a step up in rage consumption and output, and so doesn't scale.
    • In the event that rage intake is high enough to justify HS but not so high as to spam it, a warrior has to manage rage by hitting HS not just frequently, but precisely the right proportion of the time. This is needlessly complicated and mechanistic.
    To fix these issues, better scaling of both the rage bar and the warrior's rage consumption is needed. Regarding the rage bar, one solution might be to just make it bigger, say 200-300. Another would be to make incoming damage grant a diminishing amount of rage, for example:
    1k incoming damage = fill 0.1 of your unfilled rage bar
    Or some other mechanic that makes rage management a real concept, rather than "now it's empty, now it's full". Regarding the philosophy of rage being contrary to the tank's goals of avoidance and mitigation, that's a much bigger topic but some solution based on the the enemy's raw damage, rather than the damage that actually comes through, would be needed.

    Regarding the scaling of the warrior's rage to threat and damage conversion, I agree with others that it would be better to accomplish this with a variable rotation rather than with an extra ability, but furthermore it has to scale. It can't be just two abilities one costing X rage and the other costing Y rage.

    One good implementation of this is the arcane mage's Arcane Blast spell. In summary if you cast it once, twice, three, or four or more times in a row it costs progressively a lot more but does significantly more damage. In a low mana situation the mage would cast it once or twice in a row and then break it with another ability, and when mana is not an issue they would spam it. This provides a very wide mana/damage conversion scaling, and is fun to play. A similar scaling on, say, Devastate would work better than HS spam, in my opinion.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2
    A long-term change would be to make even more of tanking warrior threat come from damage done and really scale back the threat from damage taken.

    This would force me to gather (more) +hit and +expertise to be able to tank decently and the DDs won't like to see me rolling on their rings and trinkets.

    Some sort of Sudden Death - like Ability would be nice. After using it, you have some rage left for a Shield Slam, Revenge or Devastate and for every additional ragepoint you deal X dmg. It could be something like this :

    Counterattack
    15 Rage
    Striking the enemy, causing [ 20% of AP + 1456 ] damage and converting each extra point of rage into 38 additional damage. Only usable on enemies that have sucessfully hit the warrior in the last 5 sec. In addition, you keep at least 20 rage after using Counterattack.
    (Execute-values)


    I'm still hoping, there will be some Blessing of Sanctuary like ability für warriors (and druids) in the future, so i could tank a heroic smoothly without wearing offgear-parts

  19. #59
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Machus View Post
    Well reasoned post.
    I think Heroic Strike is one of the the last holdouts from their initial failed tanking design. We've seen how much better the Death Knight tanking model scales than any of the others as well as how the Death Knight can go forever with no interruption in their rotations and stable/controlled TPS regardless of the incoming damage amounts.

    The feedback pre-Wotlk that came back to Blizzard was that we (Warriors) want big hits and more Shieldy things to do. They've moved us that way fairly well so far but our tanking mechanic is still limited by some of our mechanics being Rev 1 and not updated yet.

    I don't think you can update our rage tanking mechanism without breaking free from the damage input delimma and moving toward passive and continuous rage gain. Our threat output is being balanced around unlimited rage but there have only been a few encounters in the game where I have had unlimited rage for the entirety of the fight.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    13
    How about changing it to a passive talent along the likes of :

    "Heroic Strike (passive) : When you take damage from any source, your next attack becomes a Heroic Strike, dealing 10% of the damage taken as additional damage above your normal strike damage"

    Doesnt require active management, doesnt scale badly with overgearing, and isnt tied to rage.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts