Gear-wise I can't see too much wrong there at all. I haven't played a death knight, though, so someone else will have to comment on spec.
I am having problems with some of our healers saying I am taking too much dmg, not to the point where I die cause of it, but healers are complaining about using too much mana on me.. This will maybe get me to lose my spot as a MT in some raids.. Which is fine with me as long as I get to raid, but is there any gems or enchants I can get to improve? Threat is not an issue. Guild currently just raids 25man naxx.
And this is with just HoW
The World of Warcraft Armory
You could make things a lot easier on your healers by doing the following:
Don't use stamina/dodge stamina/parry gems EVER. Don't use pure mitagation gems. They are bad. They don't scale with kings. From my personal experience, pure Stam is always the way to go. Seeing that you are a JC, you shouldn't be using nothing but either 24 stam gems or 41 stam gems. The 41 stam gems you get from being a JC activate your meta (since they act as any color or whatever color you need).
Always put your 41 stam gems to get the highest socket bonus.
I put two 41 stam gems in my legs (to get the 9 stam socket bonus) and one in the JC trinket (for the socket bonus).
Some DK's like to use the dodge trinket, but I am a big fan of pure stam (again since it scales with kings) so I use the JC trinket and essence of gossamer. The essence is really easy to get, since it's out of heroic AN.
Also, your sigil could be better. You're already D-Capped, but if you swap your gems out, you should NOT be getting hit hard, so you can do the dailies in venture bay to get the icy touch damage sigil (for threat)
So, I know that's definitely a long-winded explaination, but in short:
Always gem for pure stam. (24 stam or 41 stam, only ever use a defense gem if you ABSOLUTELY have to so you're Dcapped. No dodge, no parry gems)
Get rid of your dodge trinket and pick up the essence of gossamer.
Stam= your #1 stat. (The reason stam is especially important for DK is since we are avoidance tanks (high dodge/parry) we don't take consistant damage. We either don't get hit at all, or we get hit hard. This means healing can be unpredictable, and you want to maximize the amount of health you have, so that when you DO get hit, you don't fall over.
Make sure you're following a rotation so you're keeping your blood runes on cooldown. (Max tps rotation for frost is Icy Touch>Bloodstrike>Obliterate>Obliterate>Ruinic Power Dump with Frost Strike/Rune Strike)
For threat, I can also recommend making macros with all your regular used abilities and put rune strike in there.
Now if you're still reading at this point, and you're wondering why I suggest you change so much, and are curious to my credentials:
I have been main tanking every encounter in Wrath since it was released (25 man) on two differenct characters (although now I play DK full time).
I main tank Sarth on 3 drakes 25 man (And have 45k+ health raid buffed for that, with my regular tank gear on, no high stam pieces)
My healers have never complained once about me taking too much damage in any encounters (which often I am solo healed by a paly or a holy priest on some of the hardest encounters (25 Man Maly, for instance)
I understand you're in 10 man gear, but I can tell you right now you're having problems because you're flat out gemming for the wrong stats. That can mean a difference of 1000-2000 health (plus another 1000 health from getting essence of gossamer).
Anyways, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Hopefully this incredibly long post helps.
P.S. if you're curious about my spec/gear choices/gems, check out my armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory
Also, that's in blood presence, not frost, I'm up to about 34.5k health unbuffed in frost presence.
Happy for any advice and the long post! Always read whole posts if theres some meaning in it. Just one question tho before I start regemming..
The pure stam is totally the other way of what I've been told. And seem to recall reading around here the high stamina amount is only needed for as you say you are.. Sath with drakes? Your 100% this count for just 25man naxx as well? And with less dodge, wouldn't that mean, more hits = more heals?
Thanks for the tips btw
By the way... There is an entire forum for Armory questions/posts. Use that next time. I suspect that most of the real contributors in the gear and enchanting forum don't even actually look at anyone's armory links...
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To reply to your message;
I progressed through Naxx/Obsid/Maly with a guild (my own) that everyone was at the same gear level, nobody was super geared or anything like that. The healers didn't have amazing spell power, they were roughly in the same quality gear as myself. (I was on my paladin at the time)
I always gemmed for all stam, and have never had any problems.
When I switched over to my DK (who had no gear), I was main tanking content that completely outgeared me, and yet I still managed to do it (in heroic gear, less gear than you currently have).
Now I understand how you can believe that by having tons of dodge clearly you are taking less damage, but here's something that makes stamina always come out on top; dodge is a CHANCE. Meaning (especially as a DK) you can get RNG owned and just not avoid any attacks for like 20 seconds straight, and if you don't have enough health, you're flat out going to die. There's also a chance you'll get really lucky and get tons of dodges/parries. But the problem is, there's no way to predict or plan either scenario. What you can plan is though, if you have boatloads of health, you aren't going to die unless you stand in a void zone or something or just don't recieve heals.
Now, to make a more solid argument:
I went into 25 man Naxx and MT'd the entire place on my DK, (who had quite a bit less gear than yours has), and my healers didn't have ANY problems. I realize my healers at that time probably outgeared yours, but technically speaking, if I was getting hit that much more often than you were, I should have been taking a ton overall more damage, at least putting SOME stress on my healers.
Now this can mean one of two things:
All that dodge you have means not a whole lot if you don't have a ton of health,
Your healers just aren't doing their job properly (speccing, using the right spells, etc)
All the tanks that I know (in the top guilds of my server) have and will always gem for stamina.
Another reason stamina is superior to dodge is, in Burning Crusade because of ridiculous tank avoidance (and the fact rogues could tank nearly almost every encounter in the game while taking no damage) they put diminishing returns on dodge. Meaning to get up to the 29% dodge, you're having to stack a crap ton of dodge rating. To get that much dodge rating, you are sacrificing a lot more effective health than you would be gaining if you flat out just gemmed (and geared) for high stam (which doesn't, and never will, have diminishing returns)
Also, another reason stam is better (in naxx, maly, and 3 drakes) is it helps you survive ALL kinds of damage, not just physical. As a DK, you have naturally high avoidance, so physical damage isn't a problem. (To be clear on this, I can show you separate WWS parses where I MT'd and OT'd Patchwerk and in both cases recieved about 1/3 of the damage of the other tanks because I flat out dodged/parried most of the hatefull's (which in turn went to the other tank(s))) But not sure if you've ever attempted to MT 25 man maly, but pretty much 70-90% of the damage in that fight is SPELL damage (he melee's like a little girl) so all that dodge you have means virtually nothing. I understand you have anti-mag shell, but sometimes the damage is unpredictable... and I've definitely had moments where I was dropped down to 2k health from a special ability, that would have otherwise killed me had I not been stacking as much stam as I do.
(Other examples being sarth 2-3 drake breath, tanking the drakes on sarth 2-3 drakes, tanking the fire adds on 2-3 drakes (they deal fire damage), KT (frostbolts if you have bad interupters, LOL))
While dodge is great for a fight like patch (This will be hard for your healers to heal 25 man when you're first progressing if they're undergeared, regardless how you gem), fights like patch tend not to be hard 'progression' fights, as they are a gear check more than anything. The fights that will be pretty challenging, are fights where you'd get sub-par benefits from dodge or parry for that matter.
Long story short:
Is dodge better in some fights? Sure, it can be a better stat in some cases.
Overall is it better? From my experience, and from talking to tanks that have been tanking in top guilds since vanilla launch, stamina is pretty much always going to be overall a better stat.
Also, /rant off, just curious, what class(es) is your guild assigning to heal the MT?
(I'm a raid leader as well, so I might be able to offer some advice there, certain healers are just not built for MT healing)
Last edited by Gronnish; 03-23-2009 at 11:50 AM.
Good writeup Gronnish, I recently regemmed and got rid of most of my avoidance gems and I have to agree, for a DK stam is superior to other stats. I use my defense sigil for trash mobs, and the icy touch sigil for bosses though, higher single target threat.