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Thread: 3.1 Arms Spec Ideas

  1. #1
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    3.1 Arms Spec Ideas

    So with all the discussions regarding the ideal 3.1 Arms spec for PvP I thought I would add my 2c worth and pose a few questions.

    All these specs are based on the principle that (a) Improved Intercept and Weapon Mastery will swap (b) The Juggernaut will require an additional talent point (i.e. no reduction elsewhere)

    Disclaimer:
    * Ignore the glyphs I have chosen (they aren't relevant to the overall idea in this post)
    * Some points might not be optimal but I wanted to convery the general idea behind the builds rather than focus on discussions being posed elsewhere, for example mace spec vs poleaxe.
    * I am a tank-by-training and just getting used to this pvp-thing

    Cookie-cutter build (59+1/11/0) here

    Overview: Basically this build depends on debuffs, dots, and over-power.

    Highlights:
    • Almost everything in Arms
    • Piercing Howl

    Lowlights:
    • Sudden Death, Improved Mortal Strike are lacklustre
    • Bladestorm ... if they just stand there and take it then they are fools

    "I like my stuns" build (51+1/6/13) here

    Overview: Most of what you want in Arms with a few extra protection talents to help you control the game.

    Highlights:
    • Almost everything in Arms
    • Last Stand
    • Improved Revenge

    Lowlights:
    • Not sure how often I would get to hit revenge in PvP

    "If you don't like it then remove it" build (38+1/32/0) here

    Overview: You will still get the bleed, debuff and over-power of the cookie-cutter build but have the extra "burst" with Death Wish and Bloodthirst.

    Highlights:
    • Mortal strike is the debuff it was intended to be
    • Bloodthirst and Death Wish
    • Enrage vs Wrecking Crew (could be a negative depending on crit stats)

    Lowlights:
    • Lot of points use in fury to get Bloodthirst
    • Flurry isn't great for Arms ... could move some points around


    So?
    I know these builds are rough and untested on either live or PTR but I hear so much complaining about how poor Sudden Death and Bladestorm are in PvP that I decided to remove it and see how far I could get down the fury tree.

  2. #2
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    just some quick comments, not to bash on your ideas, they're all unique and viable, but will require testing.

    1) MS and BT are on the same 6 second cd, so chances are if you're trying to keep MS debuff up all the time, you'll never get to BT =T

    2) Flurry is AWESOME for arms!

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    Thanks -

    The talent calculator shows BT on a 5 second cooldown but I guess the whole thing fails as they share a cooldown :/

    Here the updated spec (40/31/0)

    * I will respec this weekend and give the rotation a try and see if it works.
    * I was thinking that Improved Hamstring is probably better than Second Wind as this spec is built for stuns and dps. Not sure what the verdict is on Improved Hamstring. Any Arms warriors out there that care to comment?
    * Put 5 points in Flurry but could move them around depending on hit stats required for respective gear.


    Alternative could be this where we loose Bladestorm and get Death Wish.

    ... and I was caught in a Bladestorm last night against a Rogue/Warrior combo. Rogue got stealthed in and stun-locked me, warrior opened up and I almost didn't make it out of there as my healer was running for his life Luckily Shield Wall came to the rescue *phew*
    Last edited by Clifford; 03-18-2009 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #4
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    imp hamstring is always really nice since people kiting us is always our bane, but second wind is far far superior, it is a lot of health gained and you will get hit with stuff that procs it all the time, hell i think a frost mage frost nova'ing you procs it. One solution you can try for the lack of imp hamstring is glyph for hamstring, they stack, so if you can squeeze 1 point in imp hamstring + the glyph you're golden.

    I dunno, I'd have to do a lot of arms testing but since Arms has sucked since the SD nerf, I don't have much experience at all.

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    You can glyph for the Imp Hamstring effect (I know it's what I use as fury pvp). However, I'm not sure if this stacks with the talent or not.

    Imp Hamstring is vital for 2v2. It's on diminishing returns, so you'll need to proc it on both people to get the DRs to reset.

    I can't imagine going arms and not taking Bladestorm, even over Death Wish. Pop it after you intercept or get an ImpHamstring/GlyphOfHamstring proc and you do a lot of damage. Wait until after their trinkets are down. Also, using it in 5v5 is pretty sick, especially against a melee heavy group.

    Conversely, we already have an issue with survivability and death wish doesn't help much.

  6. #6
    My preliminary Arms build focuses on maximizing rage generation and making for efficient use of it. The purpose of my tree is to give a MT the means to rotate out with other tanks and have the means to deal satisfactory dps while in that roll for a few encounters in each raid--but offering the raid something other than another fury warrior. Also, I plan to go with Mace Specialization and take advantage of the improved effectiveness of Armor Penetration gear. I'm building a set for high Crit., high Armor Pen. and of course very high strength. The two points in Improved Intercept would of course instead be used in Weapon Mastery and/or Juggernaut.

    -For starters I have placed all possible points into Improved charge, Anger Management, Unbridled Wrath, Improved Bloodrage, Second Wind and Endless Rage.

    -Next I maximized dps per rage spent. Improved Heroic Strike instead of Improved Slam will use less rage and deal more damage. I put all points possible into; Armored To The Teeth, Cruelty, The Rend/Deep Wounds sub-tree, Mace Specialization, Strength of Arms, Trauma, Unrelenting Assault, Blood Frenzy and Sudden death.

    The result was a 56/13/2 Arms Talent Build:
    .
    .
    Last edited by WarriorTanks; 03-19-2009 at 02:04 PM.

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    That's not really a pvp build though If you're planning on going arms as PvE, where's Imp Slam? If you meant for this to be a PvP build, why did you get Imp Heroic Strike and not 5/5 Deflection?

    Plus, in 3.1, you can just get dual spec and have your second spec be protection if you want to let the MT rotate out.

  8. #8
    I am the MT that would be rotating out on occasion and this would be my tentative duel spec. As I explained, this is for PvE, not PvP. I also explained replacing the Imp Slam with imp Heroic Strike. Heroic Strike will cost less rage and deal more damage than imp Slam. In fact, in all the builds posted before me, they too left out imp slam. I do not see slam being an effective part of my rotation such as it is now with fury warriors. As a tank, I am bias to HS and plain to integrate it into my arms spec.

    I found this post on a Google search and did not realize this was under PvP discussions ;-)
    Last edited by WarriorTanks; 03-19-2009 at 03:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebs2002 View Post
    That's not really a pvp build though If you're planning on going arms as PvE, where's Imp Slam? If you meant for this to be a PvP build, why did you get Imp Heroic Strike and not 5/5 Deflection?

    Plus, in 3.1, you can just get dual spec and have your second spec be protection if you want to let the MT rotate out.
    I'd expect increased efficiency on heroic strike would be more useful than 3% more parry. Heroic Strike is hugely inefficient with slow weapons, but it's still about the only rage dump we've got that doesn't use the GCD. I've gotten some ridiculously high crits with it, too... on the order of 2.5k+, and I'm using a one-handed weapon.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorTanks View Post
    I am the MT that would be rotating out on occasion and this would be my tentative duel spec. As I explained, this is for PvE, not PvP. I also explained replacing the Imp Slam with imp Heroic Strike. Heroic Strike will cost less rage and deal more damage than imp Slam. In fact, in all the builds posted before me, they too left out imp slam. I do not see slam being an effective part of my rotation such as it is now with fury warriors. As a tank, I am bias to HS and plain to integrate it into my arms spec.

    I found this post on a Google search and did not realize this was under PvP discussions ;-)
    This is a pvp forum so yes Imp slam should never be part of a pvp build. Using HS for arms will leave you with no rage and crap dps. Arms is less rotation and more about watching your procs and prioritizing things.

  11. #11
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    I used to use Imp slam a lot in my old 33/28 spec at level 70, I have no reason to not use it if I have room for it in my Arms build post 3.1 for pvp. It's all about timing, it will be amazingly good burst.

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    You won't have time for IMP slam

  13. #13
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    The purpose of my tree is to give a MT the means to rotate out with other tanks and have the means to deal satisfactory dps while in that roll for a few encounters in each raid
    I read that as, "this is for me to DPS in, and switch in for the MT if he wanted to rotate out", not "This is for the MT who wants to rotate out". My apologies.

    But, you're posting in the PvP forum, so non-PvP specs shouldn't be discussed here

    I'd expect increased efficiency on heroic strike would be more useful than 3% more parry. Heroic Strike is hugely inefficient with slow weapons, but it's still about the only rage dump we've got that doesn't use the GCD. I've gotten some ridiculously high crits with it, too... on the order of 2.5k+, and I'm using a one-handed weapon.
    An arms warrior shouldn't be using Heroic Strike in a pvp situation though. An arms warrior, period, shouldn't be using heroic strike. In PvE, you slam. In PvP, you conserve your rage

  14. #14
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    If you can't figure out how to slam in PvP, then you're not trying hard enough.

    I'm not gonna try to soften it up and say to each their own, because in this scenario it's not. At least pre-wotlk the fastest way to put on a ton of hurt on someone is to burst them with as much damage as you can as quickly as you can with all of your moves, that means whirlwind, MS, white swing (heroic strike if you don't want to slam) and imp slam. The reason why this is true is because you can fire off all of these within a 3 second window. Following up with an execute probably. Imp Hamstring procs, stop to cast, or just plain having a person hamstrung is enough time to be able to fire off an imp slam. I've plenty of times hamstrung a player, hit him with everything i've got, and while he's trying to kite me, fired off a killing slam crit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    If you can't figure out how to slam in PvP, then you're not trying hard enough.

    I'm not gonna try to soften it up and say to each their own, because in this scenario it's not. At least pre-wotlk the fastest way to put on a ton of hurt on someone is to burst them with as much damage as you can as quickly as you can with all of your moves, that means whirlwind, MS, white swing (heroic strike if you don't want to slam) and imp slam. The reason why this is true is because you can fire off all of these within a 3 second window. Following up with an execute probably. Imp Hamstring procs, stop to cast, or just plain having a person hamstrung is enough time to be able to fire off an imp slam. I've plenty of times hamstrung a player, hit him with everything i've got, and while he's trying to kite me, fired off a killing slam crit.
    while that worked amazingly in BC things have changed now, there are now more ways to get out of range etc. One of the biggest changes i have noticed with this is that when i'm playing a warrior i no longer have an opportunity to even think about using slam. i have to keep up hamstring, MS, controlling the other team, overpower procs, pummels, sudden death, bladestorm, etc. there are some changes that are going to help out but we will see what happens. personally i will be using this build at this point next patch Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
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    ... and now for something completely different (54/5/11)

    What I loose and compensate (Arms)
    * Improve hamstring (use glyph)
    * Strength of Arma (tough to take in any Arms build these days)

    What I loose and compensate (Fury)
    * Armored to the Teeth (I think the build is more crit based in anycase but a loss none the less)
    * Piercing howl (thunderclap)
    * Buffed shouts

    What I get (Defense)
    * Last stand: Situational but could turn a match
    * Dodge: Helpful against melee
    * Improved Thunderclap: Some extra slowing

    Not sure if this is enough to compensate for what is lost but there are some fights where having another "o-shit" button would be pretty helpful.

    Otherwise a fairly standard (57/14/0) or even 60/11/0.

  17. #17
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    Improved thunderclap slows their attack speed not their movement speed, so losing piercing howl is not recovered anywhere and is in fact probably gonna be the biggest loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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    I can see that working in some situations, where you're having troubles being burst down and the extra dodge/last stand is useful. But you lose so much of your burst that you wouldn't be good in a 2xDPS team, and I struggle to see where you'd do well in a War/Healer team as well.

    This could be beneficial for a 3xDPS team, as Imp TC and the extra survivability could be in your favor (especially if the other two DPSers can burst down a healer, or you can have them focused on you). I'm not sure you'd put out enough DPS to damage through a healer if you were on a 2dps1heal team.

    5v5, you can pretty much make any spec work to a point. Warriors aren't usually burst down early though, so all that extra survivability goes nowhere. You'd probably be better off just getting Imp TC and dumping the other 8pts into fury

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebs2002 View Post
    I can see that working in some situations, where you're having troubles being burst down and the extra dodge/last stand is useful. But you lose so much of your burst that you wouldn't be good in a 2xDPS team, and I struggle to see where you'd do well in a War/Healer team as well.

    This could be beneficial for a 3xDPS team, as Imp TC and the extra survivability could be in your favor (especially if the other two DPSers can burst down a healer, or you can have them focused on you). I'm not sure you'd put out enough DPS to damage through a healer if you were on a 2dps1heal team.

    5v5, you can pretty much make any spec work to a point. Warriors aren't usually burst down early though, so all that extra survivability goes nowhere. You'd probably be better off just getting Imp TC and dumping the other 8pts into fury
    This is really exactly why the prot hybrid specs never made it very far. If you were going to put points into prot for whatever reason they would either be better spent in a dps tree or better spent going all the way up the prot tree. None of the immediate abilities available to prot as universally awesome with the exception of last stand, which obviously takes alot of points to reach anyway. Burst teams would be better with you having more burst. Survivability teams would be better with you having more survivability. And teams that arent defined as either of the two probably wont get much benefit from that spec either. Sometimes thats just the way it works.
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  20. #20
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    Yeah, a survivability team may do well to have you spend 3 points in Imp TC, but that only works for melee. A survivability team may do well to have you spend points in Imp Spell Reflection, but that's too deep in prot to be worth it. Last Stand is nice...IF you are being burst down. But again, too many points in the prot tree for it. If you wind up spending that many points in the prot tree, you should probably go prot, and in that case there's no WAY you'd be the first target.

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