Tanking with a bit of arms?

[Ongweboenwe]

I've noticed that Ciderhelm's Armory currently consists of an arms/prot hybrid build. Is this merely part of this UH build? Or is it now a build worth noticing?

My name is native american, meaning "Man greater than all other men", and in staying true to that name, if Ciderhelm, a better tank than myself, is using it, I would very much like to know why.

[shiz98]

Seeing as Cider has basically done everything that can be done with current content (at least, judging from his videos ), he's probably just experimenting with different specs. He might even be Arms/Prot because he doesn't need the mitigation in current content. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on his spec these days - wait till Ulduar

In any case, Cider's current build is a single-target high-threat beast. You definitely wouldn't want it for general purpose tanking, but from what I hear (haven't tried it myself) the UA build has the highest TPS/DPS on boss fights of any Warrior tanking spec.

[wrynn]

Shiz, I can't really see where there is a "large" loss in mitigation with Cider's current spec. From talents he looses the ability to critical block and you might count the loss of Imp TC's slowing effect as an effective increase in possible damage intake, but even then we could see no loss from Imp. TC if we have an off-tank with it. (Who should also now be applying Sunders since you don't have the ability any longer--don't waste rage/GCD on regular Sunder Armor!!! No OT Warrior? Tell a Rogue to Puncture Armor.) Other than that the UA spec only effects defensive stats in the EH department in the 2% loss of Stam from taking SoA instead of Vitality (which is required for UA.)

The "trick" to being UA for TPS vs. Deep Wounds/Prot is that you kinda "switch" your Cooldowns in regards to replacing Dev with MS and having Revenge be a single 1 second cooldown (i.e. instant cast). So long as SS and MS are on CD, I would think that its Revenge and Heroic Strike (with Glyph of Revenge) all the way baby.

If somehow we could get UA with S&B, it would be Revenge/HS Spam plus crazy SSs via S&B procs from the Revenge Spam. I hope it was INTENDED this way and not a "happy-accident" that this in not obtainable. Otherwise, if it was, I'd think we'd see Warriors as the "untouchable" single-target threat tanks.

Hey, Blizz, switch Imp OP and UA... yeah, yeah! Imagine if this was your build with a UA/Imp.OP switch: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Hehehehehe BUFFS!

[wrynn]

So, I was intrigued by this post, so I went with this UA/Prot Spec for most of our Naxx25 last night. And I can honestly say that this will be my "off-spec" when Dual Specs are released next patch.

Having Glyph of Heroic Strike and Glyph of Revenge both going, with full raid buffs (not BoSanc) I was able to make a simple /cast Revenge /cast Heroic Strike macro and Spam it for an easy 4k tps. Add in SS and MS every CD and I rode around 5.5k and would spike to 6.5 with crits. Slap on Vigilance to my top DPS and walla!! 6k sustained, spikes to 7k. I think I got hit with a double ToT and MD at the beginning of Patchwerk and I saw my TPS at 11k for a moment.

Also, helps rogue/warrior (dk?) dps to have Trauma in effect for Bleeds.

On the defensive side, my heal leader said it was slightly harder to heal me, but he could cope with it.

I respec'd at Saph b/c I could no longer charge in combat without Warbringer and deleted my intercept stance dance macro... guess I have to rewrite that one.

Be warned: This build SUCKS for regular trash/5 man tanking as we're used to it today. Be ready to "go back" to frequent tab targeting as you no longer have Imp TC and Shockwave.

[Ongweboenwe]

I've noticed that some of the major downsides of this that warriors are whining about (lord knows why a warrior would whine because another warrior got creative /shrug*) Is that this build isn't as survivable. And while I agree you lose some mitigation, unless I'm mistaken from looking at this talent build, everything you lose comes from your shield, and frankly, the shield block system doesn't add up to a whole lot in my experience. It helps yes, and I will use a shield to the day I die, I'm just saying, that the actual clock mechanic, isn't amazing.

Yes, you lose AoE threat, but who runs heroics anymore? Give the aoe to an off tank

This hybrid build, could work as a great MT'ing talent, it's hard to say... But does anyone else remember when arms/Flurry was the best pvp build? Someone went out of their way to try something new, and it worked. It's possible.

[Blarkap]

Can I see a talent build for this spec? Im interested in trying it out for myself.

[Ongweboenwe]

Can I see a talent build for this spec? Im interested in trying it out for myself.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=35003301230051002022120102000000000000000 00000000000000000050251225000012521000000000&glyph =000000000000&

That will be the post 3.1 build for this Idea. Pre, just move the point from Juggernaut to incite.

I've opted for Tactical Mastery for the extra threat on MS. And avoided Imp Rend, because of the same reason we avoid Imp rend in standard talent builds, with fast tanking weapons, it doesn't do enough damage to be worth the GCD.

Taste for blood? Never going to be in Battle stance for OP anyway. The rage from imp charge is neglectful.

As for the Prot tree, I've opted for 5 points shield because frankly, that's the goal of this build, to get a block dodge or parry, and that's the fastest way to do it. The points in imp TC are also neglectful, because you'll be missing out on so much AoE threat anyway, you might as well forget it all together, and pass the responsibility to an off tank.

With glyph of revenge, you will constantly be throwing out Heroic Strike nearly every white attack, so Incite gains much usefulness. In fact, given that this build is a single target threat beast, you might even consider dropping Vigilance for that last one point, 5% crit on something you'll be using all the time, vs a tool that loses usefulness as our personal tps increases? I'll tend to lean towards the 5%.

[Blarkap]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=35003301230051002022120102000000000000000 00000000000000000050251225000012521000000000&glyph =000000000000&

That will be the post 3.1 build for this Idea. Pre, just move the point from Juggernaut to incite.

I've opted for Tactical Mastery for the extra threat on MS. And avoided Imp Rend, because of the same reason we avoid Imp rend in standard talent builds, with fast tanking weapons, it doesn't do enough damage to be worth the GCD.

Taste for blood? Never going to be in Battle stance for OP anyway. The rage from imp charge is neglectful.

As for the Prot tree, I've opted for 5 points shield because frankly, that's the goal of this build, to get a block dodge or parry, and that's the fastest way to do it. The points in imp TC are also neglectful, because you'll be missing out on so much AoE threat anyway, you might as well forget it all together, and pass the responsibility to an off tank.

With glyph of revenge, you will constantly be throwing out Heroic Strike nearly every white attack, so Incite gains much usefulness. In fact, given that this build is a single target threat beast, you might even consider dropping Vigilance for that last one point, 5% crit on something you'll be using all the time, vs a tool that loses usefulness as our personal tps increases? I'll tend to lean towards the 5%.

Word.

[Ongweboenwe]

Word.

Wow... Simple yet elegant response. Truly masterful. Lmao

[kolben]

I've noticed that Ciderhelm's Armory currently consists of an arms/prot hybrid build. Is this merely part of this UH build? Or is it now a build worth noticing?

My name is native american, meaning "Man greater than all other men", and in staying true to that name, if Ciderhelm, a better tank than myself, is using it, I would very much like to know why.

There are several applications for a build like this. Offtanking - PVP - Soloing an older boss - Experimenting - making people come here and ask questions