After all the changes to frost tanking (and getting abit upset about these changes too), I'm leaning more to go back to blood tanking.
AOE would hurt in this process but with more experience I guess this wouldn't be much of a problem.
For build 9658
50/10/11
Any comments on this spec?
Honestly, Id give it another week or so really. They will most likely be changing it again (as they have made lots of changes already) and not get to upset about it.
As to the spec you linked:
1. No annihaltion
2. no spell deflection
3. no real threat talents
MT Blood Spec
I cast the spells that make the people fall over.
Reasons for some of my talent choices.
Annihilation - Great talent, but for me and my lvl of gear, I should spec more in survival talents then working on the damage talents.
Runic Power Mastery - I was told that the points put in this talent isn't worth it. That you should put them in better ones. I placed them in Icy Reach because it makes getting pulls easier.
Improved Death Strike - As I said for Annihilation, this spec is more about survival. Probably should have mention that in the OP. And the 30% is way better than 3% from Might of Morgraine
Sent of Blood - Another talent I was taught that wasn't the best in a tanking tree.
Subversion - Isn't that more of a dps talent?
Hysteria - Don't know why you chose this. This is more of a dps talent. And the debuff can really hurt you specially in laggy times. I had it up once in beta and it was so laggy that after the timer was done, I was still taking damage and almost died to it.
Improved Blood Presence - Passive healing in frost presence? Added bonus heals? All I saw was goodness from that.
Just my thoughts.
This is about how I plan on spec'ing
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9658
currect armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory
I was really excited for blood tanking when the initial changes were announced but it seems they're nerfing the hell out of some things like Vamp blood >_<, if I were to go Blood still it would be something like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...6&version=9658
If you're planning on using DS for your U/F ability then you need Vicious Strikes.
Imp Blood Presence and Rune Tap are a waste, I also spent the point in Mark of Blood elsewhere.
I see you're still obsessed with icy reach..... but it has no place in a blood build.
I also didn't take imp Icy Touch because I know there will be a DK in my raid that has it and if not, another tank that can debuff. If you want it though, drop the points in Subversion.
P.S. I'm even blood right now for Sartharion tanking!
Ok here is my next adjusted build.
55/5/11
Few more talents I'm debating.
I understand the reasons of the other specs posted, they are more for being a MT in a raid. But how do you rate them for heroics?
Trying to see if I can balance a good heroic spec and a starting nax10 spec.
I like Icy Reach mainly cause in some encounters the boss would charge or run to a player away from you but you still have the aggro. With that talent I can just spam IT to keep my aggro and make it that I don' have to run to get on the boss but have the boss come back to me. Like how Archavon in Vault of Archavon would run to another player to do his dust cloud but you still have his aggro. This way with Icy Reach you don't have to run to him bring him back and get the rest of the raid away from the dust cloud (stupid pugs what can you do?).
However of course you still got the 30 yards taunt and DG, and maybe a DC if you have enough RP.
I'm still wonder why no one likes the new Improved Blood Presence talent. I don't understand whats wrong with the added 4% heals and more heals if you are soloing (if you can't do the duel spec yet when 3.1 comes out).
My earlier post is the spec I am, and what I use to tank heroics and MT raids. Looking at your newest 3.1 spec idea, there are some things that I personally dont like.
1. Spell Deflection.. I will say that about 80% of the spell dmg you take will not be a direct spell for the most part since most (but not all) bosses will do AoE spells. (Plus, we are losing Blade Barrier's Parry effect)
2. Imp Blood Pres isn't really a must, its 4% healing of the dmg you do, imo, u are better off putting 1 point in Rune Tap (10% of total Hp instant heal) and 1 point in Imp Rune Tap.
3. Blood Gorged doesn't seem to be the most benificial to a tank, now the 10% armor pen. is nice, 5 points seems like alot when, if you tank, you may not gain the full benifit from the talent since you must be about 75% of your Hp to gain the 10% dmg bonus, and as a tank you are taking constant dmg (you can argue that you are taking constant heals though, but still, the effect will fluctuate.)
Otherwise the rest of the points are used in a matter of opinion and how you like to tank. GL with Blood DK tanking, I find it most enjoyable.
Last edited by bloodomen; 03-11-2009 at 06:15 AM.
For 3.1 I'm going to have 2 tanking builds - a blood build and an unholy build.
For blood, I'm going with:
This
Vicious strikes+MoM+Imp DS will yield DS crits at ~3.6x regular damage [dmg x 1.1 (blood gorged) x 1.1 (MoM) x 1.3 (ImpDS) x 2.3 (Vicious Strikes)] - or ~3.3x reg damage if below the blood gorged level.
This will allow for DS to replace Oblit as a reasonably heavy-hitter for a smaller talent point investment than Annhiliation (punctuated by the loss of Lichborne as a tanking talent).
Most of the meat of the blood tree is for boosting threat, aside from Vamp Blood and WotN (you can consider Rune Tap as either, but it's just a handy utility for me). Subversion is, in my mind, necessary since heartstrike is going to be heavily used in my rotation and 3 points for +9% crit is great.
My rotation will be non-standard. I worked this out on the PTR and it does great. With 2/2 Epidemic, my diseases will last 21 seconds (since they upped the base disease time to 15 sec), and my rotation is as follows:
I'll be opening with:
IT -> PS -> HS -> HS -> DS
From there, I have 2 death runes:
IT -> PS -> HS -> HS -> HS -> HS -> DS -> HS -> HS
This longer, second rotation yields 2 death runes each time and can be constantly cycled through. It takes 9 seconds between the application of IT and the 4th heartstrike, so my frost rune will just about be back up by the time I need to death strike again. This allows for me to have a little wiggle room if I was parried, or something missed. Also, if I have excess RP that Rune Strike isn't eating, I'll burn it off either before or after the death strike (I don't remember which - haven't been on PTR in a while). If, for some reason you want to replace HS with a Pest/BB combo, the rotation allows for that and you can keep on going.
It might need some tweaks, but at this point, that's what I'm planning.
That's another spec that didn't take Mark of Blood. Oh come? I figured that a great tanking talent specially for heroics.
I have not been on the PTR to test out the new DS numbers, but assuming a raid boss is hitting me, 80% of all the DS healing will be over healing (as it has been in the past when ive tried it. OB hits just to hard with top end gear to not use it IMO. So, for a blood rotation I would be taking Annihilation. Maybe it turns out that DS's healing will not all be over healing and hit for say 80% of OB. But even then, it takes a min of 4 talent points to 3 point to use OB. To me, OB > DS overall.
That said:
MoB is not really going to do to much on a hard hitting boss, but then again, it is another helpful CD for only 1 talent point (which I can steal if I use OB)
Spell Deflection works on DD AoE damage (it works on Sarths Breath). It does not work on DoTs.
Blood Gorged is also pretty much useless for the MT. Its more of a flavor thing than anything else. I would rather put those points into Scent for Blood for more DCs and RS (works close to how BoSanc works)
I cast the spells that make the people fall over.
Ahhihilation isn't a 3 point investment, it's 5-8 points depending on whether or not imp Icy Touch is part of your spec.
I still need to test to see if DS can kind of compete damage wise, been to busy twiddling my thumbs.
Good thread going here, I'm definately considering going blood for tanking in 3.1 as well. Frost is just getting nerfed all to hell.
From what I read from the OP, he wants to maximize survival. In that case, take all the survival talents and use DS, resulting in a build like so. It is essentially a MT, single target spec (Sarth, Patchwerk, Maexxna all come to mind).
Survival Benefits:
+14% crit chance and +66% damage (assuming full RP with DS glyph) on DS before procs
Bloodworms
Mark of Blood
Vampiric Blood (VB glyphed)
Improved Rune Tap (30% heal, glyphed)
+11% Str (increased parry)
+6% Stam
Other posters in the thread have put up specs that focus more on threat generation, both single target and aoe. It really comes down to what type of tank you want to be, and what content your group is currently working on. Survival can be more important than threat in progression raiding.
Originally Posted by Bryenne
I'm sure it won't meet it, but if it's comparitive then it may be worth it. Will test damage tonight if i have the time.
Very excellent posts here.
There are some good points for several talents.
Spell Deflection as I read does seem to work with "some" AE damage. Malygos' breath, OS flame breaths for example. There wasn't much theorycrafting on wowhead that I can see. Some good points on there still.
Bloodworms, I was told, that hurt tanking as they all have their own threat numbers.
Only thing I really wondered about the example spec you posted Bryenne is that there was no points in Death Rune Mastery.
This spec I'm aiming for is alot about survival but still trying to get some balanced in as best I can.
Still juggling on a few points.
52/8/11
Also to what I'm hearing, that they are going to buff Sent of Blood to make it worth while?
The possible Scent of Blood buff might change things but tanking as Blood wouldn't get much benefit out of it. The reason for that is the dreaded GCD. The only down time you really have as blood is when you have to do Oblit/DS to get more Death Runes and that opens your rotation for a few DC's if you have the RP.
I tested with two blood specs last night, 1 focusing on DS and the other focusing on Obliterate. Unfortunately I was unable to acquire a Glyph of Obliterate however, even without the glyph obliterate was hitting for more than a glyphed talented DS. (Comparisons were done with 100 of each ability. At work so I can't post numbers.)
Glyph of Disease is absolutely amazing and might become a staple in every spec. This is the final build I decided on.
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
One change that I may consider is moving 1 point from DRM into Subversion to fill it out. Not having that guaranteed Death Rune conversion might give more time to throw out some Death Coils as I often found my RP maxed with no time to DC. Given that Obliterate hits like a truck it really isn't a sacrifice to not get that Heart Strike. Through trial and error and more testing we'll get the right rotations lol.
Bloodworms do generate their own threat (from damage only, healing threat goes to the DK), but if you can't hold threat off your own worms, you shouldn't be tanking anyway.
The reason I skip DRM in a survival themed build is that you'll be using the FU rune combination for DS if you are not at 100% health, and OB if you are. DRM allows you to convert those moves to HS in a normal blood tank build, but that's not what this is themed for. 2 rune moves also generate less power than 2 single rune moves, but with Scent of Blood up, you should not have a problem filling in rune cd time with DC's.
As Of 3.1 a true blood tank spec. Macro rune tap and rune strike into a couple attacks and your golden.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...=000000000000&
and yes i think scent of blood is useless
Thread necro... Intentional or accidental?
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