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Thread: Stop at 540 Defence or carry on ?

  1. #1
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    Stop at 540 Defence or carry on ?

    Okay i was wondering should i stop capping at 540 defence. I know if i keep adding defence my dodge/parry raises slightly. At present i have 550 Defence so was wondering should i offset some of my defence gems/enchants and replace with 16 parry/dodge gems instead or grab 4x 24 Stam gems in place of some gems etc

    Here is my armoury link so you can see gems/enchants etc:

    The World of Warcraft Armory unbuffed in Frost presence i have 29290hp atm and 28160 armour

    Thanks
    Last edited by LokÝCea; 03-04-2009 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    This belongs in the Armory and Talents suggestion forum.

    Feel free to read the Posting & Chat rules located in my Signature and at the top of every forum before posting in the future.

    Moved.

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  3. #3
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    I prefer to go dodge/stam gems in red and blue and def/stam in yellow(only if you need the socket bonus though. It keeps a nice even balance of stats. Never gem for parry it is poorly itemized compared to dodge.

  4. #4
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    Vene had a great post about this some time ago...

    How good is Defense? - Warriors - TankingTips.com

    basically, defense is the best avoidance stat to be stacking right now, because of diminishing returns, and the changes to Shield Block

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglachel View Post
    Vene had a great post about this some time ago...

    How good is Defense? - Warriors - TankingTips.com

    basically, defense is the best avoidance stat to be stacking right now, because of diminishing returns, and the changes to Shield Block
    Im a Dk though, but thanks for link, some interesting stats in it

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LokÝCea View Post
    Im a Dk though, but thanks for link, some interesting stats in it
    Quote Originally Posted by Anglachel
    basically, defense is the best avoidance stat to be stacking right now, because of diminishing returns, and the changes to Shield Block
    Death Knights are avoidance tanks, so naturally with Defense still holding the number one spot for avoidance it seems to be the best choice. What I am curious of is how much is too much? You can throw Defense enchants and gems on most of your stuff, but effective health is also important. I have not found the happy medium on this topic posted anywhere yet and what I believe that it all boils down to is your personal preference. Person A will always tell you something different that Person B when it comes to this topic, and to an extent they will both be right. Play with it, figure out what's going to work best for you!

    If I'm wrong on this, however, please feel free to correct me.

  7. #7
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    I threw caution to the wind, i removed excessdefence gems, and gemmed expertise and changed a couple enchants. I tried with hit rating trinket and now i have 30k hp unbuffed, 270 hit rating, 18 expertise(24 with potion), 45% combined avoidance. I MT Sarth last night doing this with great success. Also did lots damage.

    Done 2 heroics today and did 1800dps average and through both and held all mobs and threat easily. The pug healers i asked afterwards told me i was really easy to heal also. So gonna try heroic naxx later and test it some more.
    LokÝ, Guild Master of <Crusade> Darkmoon Faire|EU

  8. #8
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    someone up above had it right. mix Def, Dodge and STAM to get a balance.

    I see so many tanks lately with 26-28K unbuffed, but only about 35% between parry/dodge. They would be much better off dropping 1500 HP and gaining 5% avoidance.

  9. #9
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    Actually i've been doing a lot of experimenting lately with spec's, gems and everything else.

    Currently I've sacrificed a few slots to go dodge/stam and def/stam, replaced a few enchants to get to 530 def.

    Now our heroism sigil has 100% proc for aproximitly 10 more defense. So i'm sitting at 531 defense, with the sigil procing, i'm crit capped.

    This allowed me to do away with stoneskin on my tanking weapon, and put swordshattering. Which gives me aprox 31% parry and 25% dodge with horn up and blade barrier.

    Plus since i've frost, I get the 3% increased miss, so i'm roughly around 70% avoidance with everything up.

    What i've found doing this is I'm sitting at 28k health unbuffed, but I dodge and parry most everything. When shit hits the fan, i pop lichborne, and I'm practically untouchable.

    Plus i've still got unbreakable armor and icebound fortitude that I'll relay back and forth during fights like Patchwerk, and the 2 min cooldown on my heroism dodge token.

    All and all I think I made the right choice in trading in stoneskin for swordshattering. I may have sacrified a bit of health, but in the long run, i think it more then makes up for it.

  10. #10
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    i hope those are typos and you actually have 540 def.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettzypher View Post
    i hope those are typos and you actually have 540 def.
    Actually, I've seen some DKs run around with the Sigil and 530 defense since it's a 100% proc.

    However, I believe the consensus is that depending on a proc to get you over the def minimum is not encouraged. In fact, you'd probably be better off capping def on your gear and picking up the Sigil of the Frozen Conscience for more threat.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylense View Post
    Actually, I've seen some DKs run around with the Sigil and 530 defense since it's a 100% proc.

    However, I believe the consensus is that depending on a proc to get you over the def minimum is not encouraged. In fact, you'd probably be better off capping def on your gear and picking up the Sigil of the Frozen Conscience for more threat.
    Not capping defense allows me to use swordshattering versus stoneskin, and thus gives me more avoidance. Considering how often a frost tank uses icey touch, and the fact it last's for 35 seconds, i'm always defense capped.

    On bosses i'll simply taunt once i'm close enough, then cast icey touch, to avoid the rare chance of them getting a crit on the very first hit.

    I've had several healers tell me that I'm a lot easier to heal compared to others, because I put avoidance first. I've got plenty of health and armor, I really don't see much point in improving those, when I could have more avoidance. As far as I'm concerned, once I get to a certain point, avoidance is a DK's most important attribute.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omoh View Post
    I've had several healers tell me that I'm a lot easier to heal compared to others, because I put avoidance first. I've got plenty of health and armor, I really don't see much point in improving those, when I could have more avoidance. As far as I'm concerned, once I get to a certain point, avoidance is a DK's most important attribute.
    That rune is 4% if I'm not mistaken. As a healer I can tell you there's no way they'd notice that. 1 in every 25 swings is going to be avoided. Assuming a boss is hitting for 10k every 3 seconds, you'll take one less hit every 75 seconds which is about 130dps less taken. It's good that you take less, but if you look at the overhealing on you anyway I'll bet they aren't actually noticing that 130dps extra.

    Chances are you are rolling your cooldowns better than a lot of tanks, plus you are a DK so if you're rolling your CDs at all you're easier to heal than the other classes (OP).

    I'm not saying that your way of doing things is wrong, because it seems to be working. I'm just saying that you're likely a competent player in a sea of incompetence. 4% more parry alone isn't going to make you tons easier to heal.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petninja View Post
    That rune is 4% if I'm not mistaken. As a healer I can tell you there's no way they'd notice that. 1 in every 25 swings is going to be avoided. Assuming a boss is hitting for 10k every 3 seconds, you'll take one less hit every 75 seconds which is about 130dps less taken. It's good that you take less, but if you look at the overhealing on you anyway I'll bet they aren't actually noticing that 130dps extra.

    Chances are you are rolling your cooldowns better than a lot of tanks, plus you are a DK so if you're rolling your CDs at all you're easier to heal than the other classes (OP).

    I'm not saying that your way of doing things is wrong, because it seems to be working. I'm just saying that you're likely a competent player in a sea of incompetence. 4% more parry alone isn't going to make you tons easier to heal.


    Actually i'm fairly lazy. The only time I roll my CD's is on the harder hitting bosses, like Patchwerk. I never meant that the 4% more parry is making me easier to heal though, I meant my focus on avoidance does. A lot of DK's think that having a retarded health pool is the way to go. I'm a much easier to heal tank then others, because I've got a decent health pool, plus I've focused so much on maxing out my avoidance as best I can.

    Obviously you can't sacrifice Stoneskin for Sword-shattering early on, as a lot of your first tank set doesn't have as much defense rating as the later stuff, but once you get to the point where you can make up for it with the sigil and a bit of regemming, i'd highly recommend it.

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