Personaly i hope tankspot was a factor in these changes. It's a good thing. The only bad thing is that the warrior voice is the largest one by far, but i dont think the devs would take every "consern" thread serioulsy if they did not have any substance.
Also if you think dk's wouldnt get nerfed if tankspot had not made this thread you might aswell put on your tinfoil hat.
"I played hard to avoid mistakes, but now I can play hard to capitalize on opportunities." -Arold, on the 3.0 Protection Warrior.
But to finish this thread, I'm sure that you're aware that you have influence on devs and that DK nerfs (some of them needed, I agree) is partly because of your benchmarks. DKs will live with those nerfs, even as huge as 10% less avoidance. The only bad thing is that they changed tanking style instead of nerfing some abilities.
And last, but not least, I don't agree that DKs are preferred for tanking anything. DKs don't have good reputation, because a lot of DKs don't know how to play their class. They often want to dps and tank at the same time, so they mix gear and talents and nothing good comes out of it. Warrior, Paladin or Druid is always preferred, because they have bigger experience in tanking overall. And that's true, in my guild I have pleasure to raid with Warriors and Pallies and despite I may be better geared, Warrior always does great job.
"Bring the player, not the class", as GC said, it doesn't mean that all classes are equal.
I think your second comment though isn't based on much. I for one saw more than a few people comment on how they tank with other types of tanks. In my guild we regularly use warriors and paladins and dks (and at times druids but most of our bears have gone cat). This comment from you just sounds too much like a generalization.
i will have to agree with part of the comment from coe, that there is a bit of bad rep with dks for tanking but not bc of knowing how to play the class, but mainly about about the spikes of dmg. A dk can get a massive amount of spike dmg where as a warrior/pally its more even out/ironed out. me personally i thought we had the cds bc they were our only dmg mitigators besides TOTALLY avoiding the dmg <i am a frost tank, i know unholy get the spell dmg bubble/bone shield but they still have a cd> where as a warrior/pally can have the spike reduced and blocked passively. any dk tank out there can tell u of times where they were tanking a heroic and didnt avoid hardly anything in there and got beat all to crap, but then went and tanked a naxx run and hardly get touched. the problem was that dks were based off of totally avoiding the whole dmg to really survive, only problem is lets say EX. u have 60% avoidance rating, u can actually have the 40% hit u all at once for a hot min and have that 60% come inlater. i may be wrong but thats the only way i can think of that explains our soemtimes massive dmg spikes when we do have great gear and then cant avoid anything and get tore up. but to be quite honest, my opionion, they shoulda left our cds where they was gave us, but really just gave warriors/pallys quite a bit of rage whenever they parry/dodge something. then u would actually see warriors/pallys in gear to AVOID dmg instead of gear that relyed on them surviving the hits they need to tank to get the rage/mana they needed to use their cds/threat. THEN u would have warriors/pallys actually surpassign dks/druids on the fight that the xav's test was done with and warriors/pallsy would eb back up top on not only short fights but "the long drawn out that never will happen in this game" fights. and to be quite honest, thats what it all boils down too, warriors/pallsy have to TAKE dmg to sucessfully tank while a dk needs to TOTALLY AVOID the dmg to stay up, so in thatphilosophy yes a dks gonna do better, so why change him and not change the "has to take dmg" part and work with that?
Last edited by Grifieth; 03-15-2009 at 09:05 PM.
You made some good points Grifieth. DKs have no benefits from being hit. We try to avoid as many hits as possible, because we don't generate runic power or any other resources or threat by being hit. How they want to balance tanking classes if there is such a big difference in their philosophy?
DKs generate runic power by triggering their runes. As a result there's a much more even and predictable pattern for all flavors of DK. Warriors in general suffer from oddities between rage generated from attacking and being attacked. Trust me you don't want to go down that path of being completely full or completely empty.
chaining cds has become even more interesting with the new T8 4-Bonus
Feels like a bandaid to me frankly.