DUDE, a Yogi bear quote wth.
Honestly I have no idea how many protection specs I would have before making a dps spec... I know it would be a lot though... I already know my 2 protection specs for dual specs... Unless they make some changes to the trees before release.
The "Tank it Tank it, all the time" - 2 different tanking specs for different types of encounters.
The "Furious OT" - Fury main spec, a basic tanking setup for the second build.
The "I PeeVeePee sitting down" spec, a main spec (tanking or DPS) and then a PVP related build. The PVP build would be a PVProt (if man spec tanking) or a Arms build.
Me personally, going with the Furious OT as I dont have the time or resources (or drive right now) to MT it up hard core.
I'm not sure how I'll swing it with dual specs. I am officially the OT for my 25 man raid so if there are some singe tank fights, I'd like to go fury and chip in some damage. On the other hand, there may be cause to go 2 tank specs for both myself and the MT....whom I know is going 2 tank specs.
Time will tell but there is sound logic behind having a balanced tanking set with some threat and DPS considerations(Deep Wounds/Impale) and a 'Heavy Tank' set up with all the prot bells and whistles like Imp Spell Reflect, Vigilence, Improved Disciplines, etc.
your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)
For a War like myself who has been prot since pre BC... there's really no other way to do it. The prot tree has just too much to it that makes it great. When I use a Arms or a Fury spec I feel like I'm limiting my class to what I'm used to doing.
As for what wars do.... it more so falls on the lines of equality. By all means I have no problem with other tanks doing their thing and enjoying the game but when the word is "equal" I don't see that when I watch a pally or a DK kick out 8k+ tps on unlimited targets. This then makes me feel limited to what I bring to a raid comp. Sure my guild mates don't see it like that but as a tank and of war class I cant help but question it.
I'd like to keep one spec prot and the other a DPS spec, assuming fury doesn't get gutted in 3.1...still waiting on some more changes.
We have a druid that plans to MT Ulduar for us and I'm currently #1 overall dps (fury) when we have someone else OT, so I don't think I'll go double prot. For progression into Ulduar I think that I'll drop some threat talents for more mitigation as my threat is currently sufficient (yes our DPS is lacking)
This is all assuming we don't need me to run my priest, which it looks is steadily happening.
I'd love to be able to use 2 prot specs. But I owe it to the other tanks in the guild to let them have a go as well. Not to mention, I pvp a bit on the side.
Now if only I could have 4 different specs... or hadn't spent so much money respecing that I can't afford the present dual spec cost!
Inspiring and comforting
Your pod was so inspiring as the thought of 2 tank specs had crossed my mind, but was unsure if that was really right as the guild im in doesnt really use a MT, but a tank team mentality. But your right, duel spec will show who the MTs are and the OTs are.
It was comforting in the same respect to know that im not alone in my feelings towards the game, tanking, and life in general
Tank on Brother, Tank on.
/poke Ciderhelm WTB podcast, pst
I cast the spells that make the people fall over.
I feel its wrong that a warrior tank has to start specing heavyish into arms just to do thier job. I went back to a more typical prot spec myself and plan on going fury for fun when dual specs do come out.
I rolled a prot warrior during TBC because I was in a casual/social guild that found raiding extremely challenging, bordering on not feasible.
I had decided my only chance at raiding was to switch guilds or join pugs. I liked my guild, which included real-life friends, too much to bail on them. I had a rogue at the time and found that no guild running a raid wanted a rogue in their group to fill in a spot.
Everyone was looking for tanks though. So I rolled a tank and did some raiding and all was good.
Now with the Lich King I find it's just the opposite. Most groups are always full on tanks and are looking for DPS. Here's the crazy thing... before I rolled the prot warrior, in a fit of rage after being kicked out of my 3 raid of the week because, "We need to make room for a real class," I deleted my rogue.
So here I am now excited about dual specs. I can add fury spec and always have a chance at getting in a raid group that fits my real-life schedule. No longer do I have to wait for a midnight raid, knowing I have to get up for work at 7am.
But after listening to the podcast I am torn. I like tanking actually, more than I liked playing the rogue. I also take pride in it and consider myself above average at it. I also like raiding though, and with my schedule having the ability to fill a DPS spot on a whim is enticing.
So here is a question. Can I create a second off-tank prot spec, with enough dps to be a viable dps-only addition to a raid? Or should I just suck it up and have one prot spec that I use to main tank and off tank, while having a dps spec to do dps?
Maybe the ultimate question is if I am even elite enough to even care about all this. I guess I should just add a fury spec and accept I am not a main tank.
The "MT with options". I'm GM and an MT of a small 10-man guild. It'd be easy for me to MT every fight out there, but I try to be fair about rotations, especially since our tanks are amongst our most active players. With that in mind, my offspec will be Retribution, so I can DPS some of the one-tank fights (like Maly) and also sub as DPS for an evening if we're short.
Ven, I absolutely agree with everything you have said here. The investment in the tank is what makes him the maintank to the raid. They dont always have to be the one in charge, they dont always have to be the one on the dragon, but they do always have to be the one that the raid knows wont let them down. Having the raid put their confidence in me like that and KNOW that I am not going to let myself fall down to average levels is what keeps me doing it. Outstanding Podcast.
"If I'm doing a fight and I need more threat... I try harder. If I'm doing a fight and I need my taunts not to miss, then I wear hit." -Veneretio
I am already taking just about "EVERY" tanking talent in prot. If I had more options in protect to become more threat or block oriented I would do it.
Because Paladins / Druids are tri spec I don't see many going with 2 tank specs.
Now Warriors and DKs, I totally see people having 2 tank specs.
Damn you Vene. I was collecting my Fury set and hoping I might DPS in a raid once in a while. And then I listened to this... And damn, your are so right. Thanks for the wake up call.
F*** mediocrity. 2x prot it is then.
Last edited by Fragz0r; 03-04-2009 at 10:47 AM.