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Thread: Improved Diciplines talent likey to be removed

  1. #1
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    Improved Diciplines talent likey to be removed

    Ghostcrawler had this to say about the 1 min Shield wall cd if speced/glyphed:


    The cooldown of Shield Wall is not intended to be that low.
    World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Why is 1 minute shield wall still on the PTR?

    This leads me to believe that the improved disiplines talent in the protection tree will get replaced with something different.

  2. #2
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    I would guess if anything the glyph would be changed -- I haven't heard anything about any talents in the Prot Tree being reworked...

  3. #3
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    They haven't released anything about the prot talents, yet they have released the glyphs. Logic dictates they knew what they were doing when they put the glyph in and haven't finished with their intended talent changes.

  4. #4
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    Good thing would be that they really intend to do some more stuff about warriors, but we still have to see what they have in mind... and if we will like it.

  5. #5
    The simple fact that there has been the beginning of a Tank testing via the Patchwerk dummy proves they are no where near finished with balancing the tanks (or anything involved with them.)

    This includes the new druid changes as well as any other changes for warriors, paladins and the assumed changes that will come for DKs along with them.

    Blizzard made a HUGE misstep not finalizing ALL changes before starting testing in Ulduar. Yet, the biggest misstep on their part was not having a final build of Savage Defense for the first push of the PTR. Even if the community sees any "unnerfs" or changes done at this point as wins, they will still have hurt the community as a whole (all 4 classes). Adding unfinished and sweeping dynamic changes for multiple classes when they are no where nearly completely implemented even in a rudimental form was detrimental to tank morale as a whole.

    We do not need Feral tanks revolting before the changes are finalized. We do not need Warriors saying "woohoo 1 minute SW" and we do not need all those Pally tanks saying "what about me?" for 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, the 3.1 patch was no where near as complete as we all thought it should have been. I would really rather have seen better and more complete class changes + Ulduar, rather than dualspec and the tournament (which still doesnt make sense to me. Why in gods name would we be holding a fricking joust when we are in the middle of an all out war?)

  6. #6
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    shield wall is fine as it is, this is the 1 thing for warriors that actually doesnt need to be changed they need to focus on the more important issues!!!!!

  7. #7
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    Why in gods name would we be holding a fricking joust when we are in the middle of an all out war?
    I dunno, since hitting 80 things have been pretty tame. We go clean out a fortress or two, kill a dragon. Maybe bomb some stuff in northrend. Seems like a "calm before the storm" compared to what was going on with the whole dragonblight/act 1 climax; the scourge hasn't really been pushing back.

    I think the Shield Wall glyph might have been an experiment in what would happen if a more tanking classes have a DK style CD's. The result was not terribly great :P

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Blizzard made a HUGE misstep not finalizing ALL changes before starting testing in Ulduar.
    Look at the PTR like a miniature beta. Things are going to change quite a bit over the next couple of weeks. If some people get wound up and upset over that, they probably should just ignore the PTR and wait for 3.1 to hit live.

  9. #9
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    Imp Disciplines could probably afford to be removed. I don't think Fury and Arms warriors ever spec into it and most Prot warriors skip it as well. The glyph takes it's place nicely, and perhaps they are looking for some new talent to put in its place.

  10. #10
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    It's way too deep in the Prot tree for Fury or Arms to take it. If it were higher up then I could see them taking it, and it would double for when they need to tank off-specced.

    As it stands now, even Prot Warriors don't want it because there are so few encounters where 2/2 Imp Disciplines all you to use SW twice anyways.

    So if they removed it... I'd be excited to see what we'd get in it's place. Although I can't really think of any holes in the prot tree right now.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    It's way too deep in the Prot tree for Fury or Arms to take it. If it were higher up then I could see them taking it, and it would double for when they need to tank off-specced.

    As it stands now, even Prot Warriors don't want it because there are so few encounters where 2/2 Imp Disciplines all you to use SW twice anyways.

    So if they removed it... I'd be excited to see what we'd get in it's place. Although I can't really think of any holes in the prot tree right now.
    Safeguard

  12. #12
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    Improved Challenging Shout would be nice, though again not really manditory. Only times I ever use it is when something bad happens that I could have avoided anyway (such as not noticing a patrol when Thunderclap is on cooldown).

  13. #13
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    My guess is they're going to replace improved disciplines with our replacement for BoSanc. I was kind of hoping they would be baked into our other talents (eg-Deflection 5/5: 5% chance to parry, and 5 rage gained on a successful parry) but that seems unlikely.

  14. #14
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    Frankly, I'd say that this is a bit of a relief, though I'm still not particularly happy about the Shield Wall glyph (or the Last Stand one, for that matter).

    True, giving Warriors more short cooldowns would work to bring us more in line with Death Knight tanks. However, I think we can all agree with the idea behind Blizzard's fear of tank homogenization (though I'll freely admit that they seem a bit overly scared of homogenizing tanks purely by making them perform equally on encounters, independent of how that is achieved). There is plenty of room for all tanks to be roughly equal on every encounter without feeling like exactly the same class, but it requires that we each deal with the difficult parts of those encounters in different ways.

    If Warriors are simply given a number of short cooldowns to allow them to survive encounters like Sarth+3, are we really any different than a Death Knight with Rage instead of Runes and Runic Power? If I wanted to primarily raid with that style of play, I'd just switch my main to my Death Knight. I play a Warrior to be a Warrior.

    So yes, there's certainly still work to be done to balance tanks, but 1 minute Shield Wall was never the answer.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stancedancer View Post
    If I wanted to primarily raid with that style of play, I'd just switch my main to my Death Knight. I play a Warrior to be a Warrior.

    So yes, there's certainly still work to be done to balance tanks, but 1 minute Shield Wall was never the answer.
    Balancing tanks as things stand now is very difficult... too much old meets brand new
    Problem is the DK tank style was designed with Wrath from the ground up so they easily merge.
    Not so for warriors.
    What had made warriors perform until now was the threat of crushing blows... a string of 150% damage hits was bad news so we painstakingly nullified them for 3 yrs with a 5 sec button push, our block button!
    This is what made us good tanks
    CBs have gone dodo but warrior mechanics remain more or less the same as vanilla.
    This expansion works for the new DK tank design far better when it comes to the heavy melee or magic spike damage fights that we know are coming with harder Ulduar progression raiding.
    That's what makes a "cool down" tank awesome!
    And a blocking tank?? well...
    Last edited by Minaba; 03-04-2009 at 04:11 AM.
    My mana is low!!

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