Well said Tom.
Xav posted a 2nd thread to quell the masses:
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Patchwerk Tank Testing 2nd Trials
Well said Tom.
There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.
Only wanna talk about the glyphs.
It seems they're pulling the numbers out of thin air. If they think a 1 min shield wall will help then I'd tend to agree that it will help as long as encounters are designed around a boss doing big damage every 30 secs or so.
If they did that though then the glyph would be a necessity in which case why would it be a glyph and not part of the core ability?
They now say 1 min wasn't intended.. well if it's like 2 mins now for example then that would be completely pointless. You would get a weaker shield wall which can still only be used twice in a boss fight and you wouldn't want to risk using it on something silly early on as it will be needed towards the end.
Seeing as most bosses do their big damage spikes at either closer than 2 min intervals or once at the end then I can't see any point to having a weaker shield wall of more than a 1 min CD.
I personally would like some reactive tanking and I enjoy using CD's to save my life. That's what is most fun about heroics as warrior:
You can pull a massive pack which would normally kill you, use TC then shockwave, TC again then put block up. As blocks running out then you can put up piercing howl, intervene back to your healer, kite a bit then charge the guy at the back, conc blow a guy and kite back then intercept to him then there's always last stand, spell reflect, fear and disarm etc...
Basically you can pull off some pretty great stuff and avoid tons of damage just by using all the tricks in a warriors box.
In raids though I feel a severe lack of CD's. Tanking is boring as hell once you get the hang of it. Sure I can always try and maximise my threat but most bosses in naxx for example I don't really need to even move around and after using last stand+enraged regen I feel very vunerable and relying entirely on health pots and my healers.
I don't like that you can chain CD's so you take far less damage but I would like some reactive CD's that allow you to avoid death for a couple of seconds.
A short CD (20 secs say) skill that says next hit does 50% less damage or something. Or lowering the length of time last stand is active for but putting CD down to like 1 min. At the mo last stand+enraged regen is really my big 'oh sh1t' button and it would be nice to have a bit more. I can't want to be chaining CD's so i'm constantly under the effect of something but some more short CD 'oh sh1t' buttons would be very nice.
That's my preference anyway though most others in this thread seem to prefer not having short CD's.
Looking at Xav's 2nd post thread, and looking over the significant nerfs to DK tanking in the latest build, and I'm getting concerned.
All the criticism of DKs chaining cooldowns is obviously well deserved. However, even with the buffs to frost presence and the addition of RotSG, we still take by far the most damage when we don't have cooldowns up. The extra 5% physical mitigation we just got from Blade Barrier isn't going to make up the difference between the average hits Xav listed in the first two minutes.
For this comparison, we can throw out the Unholy DK because he obviously had Bone Shield up and enough avoidance to chain it (which won't be possible anymore). Comparing the Blood DK to the rest, and it isn't even close.
Drop 10% avoidance from the DKs (as they just did with Blade Barrier), and they would pretty easily have the worst avoidance as well.
The problem is pretty simple: DK cooldowns are the balancing factor for *two* things: Block and other tanks cooldowns. To balance well against block, chained *little* cooldowns would make sense and take some skill to play (as Tom pointed out), but this leaves the DK vulnerable when they *need* a big CD. Making the CDs big enough to be reasonable "Oh, S&^%!" buttons, and they are too good if chained together.
I agree with Tom's assessment that they need to go one way or the other, but the current nerfs on the PTR really don't do either: they broke cooldown chaining, nerfed avoidance by 10% and gave back a small amount of mitigation (5% to physical only) ... which may be offset by the huge nerf to WotN. Bah... I'm starting to sound like a whiner. I'll stop now.
Craxs, I'm not sure it's as bad as you think. It's true that DKs take more damage without CDs when they get hit. On live their avoidance more than makes up for this, so in fact DKs are not (on live) the least-survivable tank when CDs are down (they also have more HP, so they can absorb a few larger hits).
I think that Blizz (despite what you and I think) are going to try and give DKs the most CDs, but have to otherwise tank live everyone else (survive without CDs always up), and I think this was an iterative step; they are trying to see how far they have to go on the CDs and avoidance reduction first, and then I think they will bring up mitigation as needed (which may not be that much).
You are totally correct though that someone needs to go do some tests with the new changes. I think everyone agrees that if DK survivability is below the other tanks that they need to have their mitigation buffed. Also, it needs to not be done with armor, since DKs are already too close to the armor cap.
I imagine this week will bring more data to mull over.