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Nobody should be honestly surprised at this.
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Last edited by Lizana; 03-01-2009 at 08:29 PM.
Nobody should be honestly surprised at this.
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Actually I am a bit suprized.
They did not take out the ZA bear with the release of sunwell but rather with the 3.0 patch and a new expansion.
We are still going to be lvl 80, we are still going to have the same talents and same basic stats, with motifications for tier gear, but it is no where near the difference in 2.4- 3.0
With the exception that if you were in Ulduar 25 gear you'd probably breeze throught he naxx achievements with much issue.Originally Posted by Vakfaroosh
A little bit but it is fair and I don't disagree.
With the Warbear, it remained available until 3.0 and the enormous nerf to all raid bosses but here, while people will be able to gear up in Ulduar and overpower it more easily, its clearly not as massive a change in difficulty.
Still, its a reward reserved for the players who have accomplished the most and allowing players to pound away at it forever takes away from the epeen value of it. Its not like its a truly unique model and a proto drake mount is unattainable, but there is a difference and players who got it done while it was relevant will stand out.
Exit Question: What will happen with the Twilight Drakes from OS?
your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)
This is one of those situations where the gear difference between 10 and 25 man raids really screws things up. How is getting the 25 man meta achievement in full Ulduar 25 gear different than getting the 10 man meta achievement in full Naxx 25 gear?
I understand Blizz's rationale for removing the drakes, but it still sucks for 10 man only guilds. In a perfect world, I'd love to see them leave the rewards in place and do some sort of iLevel checking, so you have to be wearing tier-appropriate gear to get the achievements.
Still, it really does make it look like Blizzard blew it regarding early LK raiding difficulty, if a dungeon they're releasing five or so months in is that much more challenging, that you'll be getting gear impressive enough to blow Naxx away.
Just my opinion, of course. But is this stuff really that easy to blow through, that the next tier of gear will make us that powerful? That's one heck of a curve.
This is a fair point, but I think shows that they're learning. They probably understand now that in order for us to care about these rewards they need a certain scarcity.
On a semi-related note, I'm very surprised they haven't removed the ability to acquire both Thunderfury and Hand of Rag from the game yet as well as the War Glaives and the Bow. A new expansion would seem to be a natural time. (although this may have been b/c they were entertaining the possibility of upgrading them)
Well the thing is, all of the achievements, except three, are fairly simple with a little coordination and are obtainable by almost any guild. Hell, my guild which is still working on 2 Drake Sarth got Arachnaphobia and was very close on Make Quick Werk of Him when we 8 manned it for Dedicated Few...Still, it really does make it look like Blizzard blew it regarding early LK raiding difficulty, if a dungeon they're releasing five or so months in is that much more challenging, that you'll be getting gear impressive enough to blow Naxx away.
The three hard ones are, The Undying/Immortal; Don't Have an Eternity; and Twilight Zone.
Likely, the entire rest of the Meta is balanced around those three achievements being the blocks...
Adding in a single extra tier of gear, let alone two (Ulduar 25 Hard mode, or Yog gear), helps to trivialize two of those (Twilight Zone and Eternity). Extra Stamina, extra Tank health and avoidance, a legendary (Possibly) healer weapon, even higher DPS, better itemized gear, potentially amazing set bonuses, all of which can easily make the difference between 2 Drake and 3 Drake, or a 7/8 minute kill and a 6 minute kill...
Yeah, they kind of did. Most people aren't going to think of Naxx as ultra-entry-level. They're going to go into Ulduar in their 10 and 25-man groups, get hit in the face with the difficulty truck, and Blizzard's going to be getting the brunt of it.
That's not progression (progression as in something becoming more of something, not as in "whee, we got another raid down"). Progression is when you go from difficult, to more difficult, to hardcore balls-to-the-wall. This is like the old console games, where you got 95% that was so easy, you could play it in a coma, and then BAM! The last boss required three people and a load of prosthetics to play.
In my eyes, that's a failure. It relegates everything we've seen since LK came out to joke status.
And the excuse that "we needed to have ez-mode stuff so that we could fine-tune spec balance, and such" that they threw at us when people started complaining this time doesn't fly. They changed things up just as much talent and skill-wise when BC came out, and those first raids were tough (so tough, they were nerfed quickly). Blizzard didn't puss out then and cater to the masses, did they? They were all "shut up and play". Now, people might as well be playing pattycake.
I am disappointed at this, I see the reasoning, but given my ultra casual 10 man (but very capable), we will unlikely finish the 10 man achievement before the 3.1 release - just due to our lesser frequency of play.
The beast is getting hungrier.
Again, though, if you're saying that just a tier better gear will make these trivial, then to my eyes, it really devalues them. I mean, will everything be soloable now? If the gear is that much better, that it can make these achievements so easy so quickly, it has to make the dinky 5-man stuff look like child's play.
It's not something that's going to make me lose any sleep, since I play for the content, rather than the achievements, or mounts, or difficulty levels. It just strikes me as kind of sad that it used to take ten extra levels and an expansion to make content obsolete, and now it just takes a content patch.
Being in full 226 gear compared to 213 and 200 isn't that huge...except when you look at those encounters. The difference between killing Tenebron 5 seconds before his second portal, compared to 5 seconds after; while only a 10 second difference is an absolutely encounter breaking period of time. The excess damage that can be done in Phase 1 to phase 2 transition in Malygos, and the time to kill the Scions/Lords. Even if you shave off only 5 seconds off each Scion/Lord you are still saving a full minute, just there.
It isn't "That" much better, you don't need much to go from a wipe to a kill. Or to go from a kill to trivial. From the strats and Video's for Twilight Zone, there is an overlap of 2 drakes for about 5 to 10 seconds between Tenebron/Shadron and between Shadron and Vesperon. How much easier does the fight become if that overlap simply does not exist? And this all from a mere, 5 or 10 seconds killed faster...
Are you telling me that you didn't kill bosses, or mobs at least 5 to 10 seconds faster going from Heroic blues to Naxx 10 gear? Or Naxx 25 to Naxx 10/Heroic epics? Why is it deemed a failure when the same scale is applied to Naxx and it's successor?
Its fine, if a little drake and other people having them makes or breaks the game for you, maybe you should evaluate why you play this game and become more hardcore if that is what you strive for.
I just wish the Titles didn't depend on EVERYONE and just YOU. I've done naxx a few times without dying at all, just a noob here or there screwing it up.
Unless you raid every other week, you have virtually the same single clear every week to accomplish things that everyone else does. Also keep in mind, it'll probably be at least another month before this is released.
Why? Raiding is not an individual effort.I just wish the Titles didn't depend on EVERYONE and just YOU. I've done naxx a few times without dying at all, just a noob here or there screwing it up.
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They did this in TBC with Kara. They treat all new lvl 80's as new raiders. They still brought Sunwell in the end!
Blizz has also stated that Ulduar will start out quite easy and increase in difficulty as you go through the bosses. I expect we'll be able to *breeze* through the first few bosses, spend a couple hours on the next 3 or 4, and spend a few weeks or a month progressing through the rest of it (providing it's as hard as Blizz says it will be).
Here's hoping to a gradual ramp-up in difficulty!
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