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Thread: Share the tanking?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    I apologize if I accidentally pull threat, since tanks should generally be aware of this issue. I used to raid more with a guy who felt it was his personal responsibility to tank every single mob, and would taunt off of *everyone.* It was really annoying.

    As long as you talk to the other guys in your group and figure out what works for you all, things should be fine.

    Our guild generally switches tanks from fight-to-fight, sometimes depending on raid leader preference, sometimes depending on tank preferences. It's a good idea to have multiple experienced tanks, though. That way, when people aren't available, the guild can still raid relatively problem-free.

  2. #22
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    Turn off righteous fury...profit.

    It's not acceptable to pull off the 'MT', dear paladin.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callaern View Post
    I don't think it is that big of a deal, but one thing to keep in mind is the rage issue. For example, if you, as a paladin, pull threat from a prot warrior MT, he has just lost his primary means of generating rage and therefore putting out threat. .....

    I don't think it would be a major issue for druids, since they have such higher dps anyway compared to prot warriors who aren't tanking, but I don't playa druid, so I may be a bit off base there.
    By the sounds of it you've never played a paladin either. We require a large amount of effective healing (meaning we need to take damage first) to get mana back from spiritual attunement, to keep up our threat rotation. A paladin trying to catch up on threat without being hit is going to be OOM in about ten to fifteen seconds. Not only that, but we count more on reflective damage (from holy shield) than a warrior does to make threat. Please learn about other tank classes before comparing mechanics.

    Honestly, if you're able to pull a boss from a warrior after giving him a head start, maybe he shouldn't be tanking him in the first place.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    Honestly, if you're able to pull a boss from a warrior after giving him a head start, maybe he shouldn't be tanking him in the first place.

    I think pretty much any tank that is equally geared and played can pull a boss off of anyone, that's not the point. The point is that if you are in OT mode you play OT and that means keeping your threat under control. You are there to assist the MT not to prove that you can put out more threat than he can. Any face rolling twink can pull that trick, it takes a bit of skill and smarts to keep your aggro under control and be a help to the raid rather than a hindrance.

    Please, Pally's, don't use RF when I'm MT and I won't use Taunt when you are MT.

  5. #25
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    Feb 2009
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    Generating aggro while trying to do damage is fine and expected, just do your best to let the tank do his job.
    Taunting off the tank, however, is a big no no. Unless you're tanking trash or you're supposed to be taunting off the tank he will get angry. Taunting implies that you can tank better than he can (insulting, regardless if it's true ).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackers View Post
    I think pretty much any tank that is equally geared and played can pull a boss off of anyone, that's not the point
    Really? I fail to see how an MT, using a proper threat rotation, could ever have another tank pull threat off of them without taunting.

  7. #27
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    Problem with turning RF off, especially if we're not getting hit, is the massive amount of mana it takes to put it back on.
    Plus it gives a damage reduction. Warriors don't have an equivalent to it, so I can't say "it's like asking you to ...", but if I'm not getting hit I'm not getting healed, so my blue rage bar isn't going up. Thus spending half of it to put on a buff thats needed if the tank dies is, often, asking a bit much. We can't hold/generate threat without mana, and because of stupid potion sickness I can't chance using a mana pot most of the times.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    Really? I fail to see how an MT, using a proper threat rotation, could ever have another tank pull threat off of them without taunting.
    Umm, I don't see where he said "without taunting." I think that's exactly the topic of conversation?

    Problem with turning RF off, especially if we're not getting hit, is the massive amount of mana it takes to put it back on.
    Plus it gives a damage reduction. Warriors don't have an equivalent to it, so I can't say "it's like asking you to ...", but if I'm not getting hit I'm not getting healed, so my blue rage bar isn't going up. Thus spending half of it to put on a buff thats needed if the tank dies is, often, asking a bit much. We can't hold/generate threat without mana, and because of stupid potion sickness I can't chance using a mana pot most of the times.
    Okay. All fine, but irrelevant. Keep RF on if you want - all the more reason to pay attention to your threat. As the OT it's just as much your job to stay below the MT as it is the job of DPS and Healers to do so. If switching tanks mid-fight wasn't a serious issue on a lot of fights, nobody would ever bother designating who was MT and who was OT, you would just run in and fight for tanking rights. The reason you don't is that fights are much more manageable and predictable when the MT is... T'ing.

  9. #29
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    Dec 2008
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    Australia
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    No, not taunting, just pulling from out threating.

    We had a designated MT for Maexxna, which was me, and near the end one of the healers said "hang on, Niian's tanking this ... oh, I've been chain healing the other guy".

    What I wanted to find out was other peoples reactions if someone, albeit accidentally, pulled agro off them without using a taunt.
    If it was an accident and they said "oh crap sorry, didn't realise" would you still lose your head? And on the flip side if it was an annoying tank who kept trying to steal threat from you on purpose ....

  10. #30
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    My attitude if someone accidentally pulled aggro off me would be embarrassment

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niian View Post
    What I wanted to find out was other peoples reactions if someone, albeit accidentally, pulled agro off them without using a taunt.
    If it was an accident and they said "oh crap sorry, didn't realise" would you still lose your head? And on the flip side if it was an annoying tank who kept trying to steal threat from you on purpose ....
    I don't think anyone in a non-super-serious raiding guild would, or should, lose their heads over the first instance of accidental over-aggro.

    Hard-core guilds require everyone to be paying attention, so that particular accident should never happen. Like I said earlier, each role needs to be doing its job properly. The OT role is to do DPS until needed to tank something (in my humble opinion).

    I'm not in a super-serious-hardcore raiding guild, we're relaxed but focused and try to balance fun with progression. An accidental pull like that would have me Real-Lifing a *sigh*, and probably a /w back with "np, now just do DPS on it! ".

    I think to judge overall reactions though, you needed a poll


    Medemer
    --
    From Warsaw, they're the best.

  12. #32
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    Jan 2009
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    When I'm in the 'not tanking right now' mode I tend to throw a hand of salv on myself and give the tank a bit more of an openning to build aggro. Frankly, the raid isn't going to miss my dps in that 5-10s. When I'm in tank gear (as opposed to a designed dpser where I'll switch to ret set with prot talents), I'll pull anywhere from 1600-2200 depending on the fight in 25mans and that just doesn't get me 'above the fold' on recount.

  13. #33
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niian View Post
    What I wanted to find out was other peoples reactions if someone, albeit accidentally, pulled agro off them without using a taunt.
    If it was an accident and they said "oh crap sorry, didn't realise" would you still lose your head? And on the flip side if it was an annoying tank who kept trying to steal threat from you on purpose ....
    There realy is not an aswer to that question since everyone react differently. As an example someone might do a Michael Douglas if they didnt get breakfast at mcdonalds while other would just go "whatever I will just take a bigmac then".

    Just do your best and hopefully its enough.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    203
    Realize I didn't answer your actual question (how do you feel).

    On trash: no worries, free for all. Don't grab the current 'skull', but grab one and beat on him a bit. Particularly try if we're trying to speed run farmed content. More trash mobs=better.

    On bosses: Occassionally, or where we're implementing a specific strategy where I think I might die (progression tanking basically), its all good and friendly. Often (every other boss lets say) is uncool. Control thy threat grasshopper. If the boss thumps a DPS after the MT goes and the dps dies, it'll probably be a gnome or a rogue and that's all upside. Taunt back. Down the boss. /poke dead dps. Multiple over aggros same boss very uncool, private discussion in other vent channel or pst.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Denmark
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    Holy damage and Righteous Fury means paladins simply do more threat.

    They also do less damage, though.

    Of course there's a skill element, but that's the foundation.
    風林火山陰雷

    ಠ ,ಠ
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain - it's time to roll the dice

  16. #36
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niian View Post
    Doing Naxx25 last night I started thinking. It hurt a little bit, so I took some panadol and lay down. Kek.

    When I joined my current guild there were 2 prot warriors, a frost DK, a prot Paladin and a feral Druid. These guys were the "main tanks" for pretty much everything, I was invited only because my fiance got a friend to invite us in.
    Since I've been in the guild the DK has quit, the Paladin is "taking a break" and one of the warriors has gone dps (for now), which means I get a tanking spot.
    That on it's own is great, but having run very few 25mans with them I was unsure of their tanking preferences.

    The last Naxx I did was with the druid and one of the prot warriors tanking. None of us minded who tanked what, but I always felt the need to ask the other two if they wanted to tank it. During Thaddius the warrior was meant to be tanking, so I phased out and just started hitting random buttons. Because I'm a Paladin this lead to me tanking >_>
    Apologising profusely to the warrior for accidentally pulling threat, he let me know it was no worries and to keep tanking it.

    I did the same again on Noth, this time stealing off the other warrior.
    Thankfully they are both top blokes and didn't mind, but it made me wonder what you guys do if people pull off you, or if you accidentally pull agro and find yourself tanking?

    Personally I'm all for sharing the tanking experience, hence not wanting to come across as an agro-whore. I got called that, jokingly, by the druid tank last night ... so I DI'd him
    The only commet I would make is you really not be pulling aggro of who ever is tanking, if your not tanking then your there as DPS.. its poor play really doesn't matter if the MT doesn't mind you should not be pulling aggro.

    On topic tho I'm all for rotating who tanks so everyone gets a go at tanking something

  17. #37
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    Jan 2009
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    Personally if im OT i dont find the NEED to stay on the OT ass on the threat meter due to i always have MT on focus so if i see him drop to where i believe is clos enough for the healers to not have enough time to get a heal off ill take it upon myself to taunt it off to give him a hot sec to get to full life. I dont feel its a need to use more then normal attacks like Dev,SS, HS and CB. Not that you got to be 2nd on threat but you have to know when to get it off the MT in a time of need/ pull him RIGHT when the tank goes down.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    It actually takes some skill to stay at 2nd threat sometimes. It's an understandable mistake, but one we should all really watch out for. We all have omen and can see when to hold back. It's something we all need to practice now and then. If I am within 20k threat of the #1 aggro I stop everything but autoattack until a larger lead is obtained, then I go back into threat building mode.
    I have to agree, it takes a fine touch sometimes to stay #2 on threat. That's probably harder than just doing #1 on many fights for some classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalken View Post
    "I'll let the dragon hit me in the face, you stab it in the ass."

  19. #39
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    Jan 2009
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    90
    When i'm not tanking I usually just do my usual rotation and our warriors are good enough to keep ahead. It's not really an issue tbh. it's only an issue if you're an asshat who is intentionally trying to make your other tanks feel inadequate, if that's the case then you really shouldn't do it!

    Be friends with your other tanks and give them hugs, even if they are bears.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medemer View Post
    I I think to judge overall reactions though, you needed a poll
    I pretty much flip out and apologize like mad when I screw up. When others do it I generally don't notice or care :P
    Former healbot now a Disgruntled protection warrior.

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