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Thread: Share the tanking?

  1. #1
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    Share the tanking?

    Doing Naxx25 last night I started thinking. It hurt a little bit, so I took some panadol and lay down. Kek.

    When I joined my current guild there were 2 prot warriors, a frost DK, a prot Paladin and a feral Druid. These guys were the "main tanks" for pretty much everything, I was invited only because my fiance got a friend to invite us in.
    Since I've been in the guild the DK has quit, the Paladin is "taking a break" and one of the warriors has gone dps (for now), which means I get a tanking spot.
    That on it's own is great, but having run very few 25mans with them I was unsure of their tanking preferences.

    The last Naxx I did was with the druid and one of the prot warriors tanking. None of us minded who tanked what, but I always felt the need to ask the other two if they wanted to tank it. During Thaddius the warrior was meant to be tanking, so I phased out and just started hitting random buttons. Because I'm a Paladin this lead to me tanking >_>
    Apologising profusely to the warrior for accidentally pulling threat, he let me know it was no worries and to keep tanking it.

    I did the same again on Noth, this time stealing off the other warrior.
    Thankfully they are both top blokes and didn't mind, but it made me wonder what you guys do if people pull off you, or if you accidentally pull agro and find yourself tanking?

    Personally I'm all for sharing the tanking experience, hence not wanting to come across as an agro-whore. I got called that, jokingly, by the druid tank last night ... so I DI'd him

  2. #2
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    Multitank Cushion

    For many bosses I don't mind sharing the tanking role. Like on Lotheb and Maexena its nice to have the 2nd tank able t keep up with agro and I encourage them to taunt off me to keep their agro up. On fights like these I also encourage a taunt if my health is going down. It can be a nice cushion if the main tank isn't being kept up and is getting low on health to be taunted off of by a second tank at full health. Just make sure to coordinate with the healers so they know what is going on. A fight were it is unacceptable for the OT to pull agro is Patchwerk.

    On another note if you are stealing agro and are a pally tank you are either trying to steal it or are stupid. Righteous Fury can be turned off.

  3. #3
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    If someone stole aggro from me during a boss encounter due to inattention, I would be irked. If that person were a pally with RF up or a DK with frost presence, I would be irked, and there would be swear words.

  4. #4
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    I've never liked clicking RF off, because if I'm not tanking it I try stay at second threat, just incase. If the need arises for me to put it back on and I've been DPSing, I'd normally be at low mana due to the lack of mana regen thus either not have enough mana to rebuff it or be oom right after putting it on. Neither of which is a good thing to have happen when you need to pick up agro!
    Not to mention the damage reduction, because I also like to put Hand of Sacrifice on the tank to reduce incoming damage.

  5. #5
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    I don't think it is that big of a deal, but one thing to keep in mind is the rage issue. For example, if you, as a paladin, pull threat from a prot warrior MT, he has just lost his primary means of generating rage and therefore putting out threat. On most fights this will result in the dps quickly overtaking him in threat, and his damage is going to be paltry compared to your mana based damage. The raid overall will have more dps if you stay below the warrior MT, unless it is a fight that allows him to pick up adds or a fight such as Patchwerk where he is still taking dmg and generating rage/threat.

    I don't think it would be a major issue for druids, since they have such higher dps anyway compared to prot warriors who aren't tanking, but I don't playa druid, so I may be a bit off base there.

  6. #6
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    It actually takes some skill to stay at 2nd threat sometimes. It's an understandable mistake, but one we should all really watch out for. We all have omen and can see when to hold back. It's something we all need to practice now and then. If I am within 20k threat of the #1 aggro I stop everything but autoattack until a larger lead is obtained, then I go back into threat building mode.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niian View Post
    what you guys do if people pull off you, or if you accidentally pull agro and find yourself tanking?
    In certain insane AOE situations (more than six) then it is possible for a pew pew to pull but generally the mob is almost dead so I don't care. I might have an initial hard time picking up say a pack of 10 mobs that a random hunter aggroed w/o letting the DK that is spamming some red shit on the groud tank them but in general I do ok. I did have issues when _any_ pally could throw up JOL and pull like 5billion tps though.

    As far as pulling off tanks, I try and respect the threat. It can be hard to ride that line of second on threat when you're built and trained to dish threat. I can't say I've ever had issues except with terrible threat tanks (sub 2k tps). I figure if I'm hitting the boss in his ass end while rage starved, then the tank getting all that glorious rage/mana/whatever dks get from getting hit better out threat me or I'm just gonna tank it properly and give them a lesson on how to tank. If I do pull by accident with a good tank then I apologize and pay the raid's repair costs if a wipe results.
    Former healbot now a Disgruntled protection warrior.

  8. #8
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    Just going to chip in that most bosses can now be taunted, so staying at 2nd in threat isn't a priority and if its causing potential disruptions due to inattention, you may as well not do it.

    I spend most of my time playing off-tank by choice so I tend to be fairly aware of if I'm closing too close. It can become a chore on your healers to suddenly have to heal somebody else or even your dps since if a boss turns to face you, the people you're standing next to are now in front of it

  9. #9
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    I've see way too many fights where theres no tank on second threat, and a DPSer getting creamed when the tank goes down.

    Two out of the 3 times I've lead a 25Vault run I've MT'd it and had a druid OT.
    Both of those times the druids have failed at offtanking by failing to taunt to get upto my threat. This has lead to DPS dying unnecessarily, hence why if I'm offtanking I always try to stay on the MT's ass in threat.

  10. #10
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    When someone else is the MT, I always try to stay second on threat. All it takes is watching when you're closing in on the MT and cooling off a little when it happens.

    People pulling off me is annoying as hell.
    風林火山陰雷

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  11. #11
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    I've got no problem letting another tank take over if they want to, but I'd probably be a little piqued if they didn't say so beforehand. Not only because it's important to know for the tanks, but arguably even moreso for the healers - when healers are assigned tanks to keep track of, they usually focus on that one tank more than others, so if suddenly the other tank is taking a lot of damage while the other isn't... it can cause some swearing from the healer section.

    But as far as Big Bad Orc Syndrome™? Nah, I ain't got it - if you wanna MT and you're capable of doing so, I've got no problems with switching off. Everyone deserves some time in the limelight, after all

  12. #12
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    I would call pulling agro off a boss as bad etiquette. Not because of the ego of the other tank, but because you cause all kinds of trouble for the healers and positioning for the boss.

    I am a raid lead and a tank. The people in my tanking core all share MT duties. switching off who tanks what so none of us get bored. Actually, I only tank kel now a days. When i get a new tank in the raid, I asses thier gear and make judgements on which bosses they can handle. Then i give them a try on a boss like maxena or anub to check out thier threat. If they can handle it, great they get more bosses to tank. If they cant, they get to OT the rest of the night then get pulled into a different vent channel after the raid to talk about why they didnt get to tank more.

  13. #13
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    I must be lucky that it's a relaxed "friendly" sorta guild then
    None of us seem to mind if the other pulls agro, unless it's a boss that needs to face a certain way. I almost got agro on Sarth 3D from standing still doing nothing. Confused the hell out of me until I realised the rogue had used Tricks on me instead of the tank >_<

  14. #14
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    Yup our paladin tank tends to open up the second after I do resulting in me hitting taunt or mocking blow. That starting threat burst is quite nifty *nods*. Mistakes happen sometimes, sometimes you just can't predict a lucky crit string or something (I've seen our bear tank pull like that too). I don't tend to get angry. But every time it happens it is a slap in the face - I mean it does appear like I don't know what buttons I'm hitting...

    Aethelas
    Last edited by Aethelas; 02-25-2009 at 11:23 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #15
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    If its farm content I could not care less if the ot drew aggro once in a while. It's a honest mistake, unless they do it on purpose ofc which makes them a douchebag tbh.

    On new bosses though I would firmly tell them not to do it again, but i would not get mad if it was a mistake. As a tip i would start the fight with rf off and put it on after 15-20sec to make sure you avoided it happening again. Paladin starting threat can be quite overvelming for other tanks

  16. #16
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    If you weren't assigned to be MT1 (boss tank) for the fight, then taking aggro was a little careless (yes, mistakes happen, of course!). We'll state who the MT1 is and it's then his/her job to generate TPS like mad... but conversely everyone else's responsibility not to grab aggro from him.

    If it was me in MT1, I'm well aware of Pally initial burst aggro, and you stole it from me then I'd be a bit disappointed you weren't paying attention. MT1 has to pay attention with TPS + cooldowns + positioning, DPS has to do the same, Healers are all looking out for low health/dispells... just 'cos you're on the tank list doesn't mean you can just phase out and mash buttons mindlessly.

    As a general rule though, every tank in our runs gets a chance to stare at the big boss's crotch (as someone else so elegantly put it), so how you treat the MT1 for boss fight X is how you should expect them to treat you for boss fight Y.

    Everyone's a team player, including the tank team. Or at least they should be if they don't want to just concentrate on solo farming classic or low-TBC content


    Medemer
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    Once is enough, though.
    Last edited by Medemer; 02-26-2009 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Meant the opposite of my original sentence

  17. #17
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    if its a progression fight there will be strong words.

    if its a casual farm fight ...i would just say..ok your tanking....please remember there are no healers assigned to you.

    TBH we use the same MT/OT in rotation anyway so its not normally a problem.
    Belgariad: EU : Lightnings Blade. Once a Tank. Always a Tank.

  18. #18
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    If some other tank accidently steal aggro I just taunt back, only problem with I have with this is if the aggrosteal causes the boss to reposition to an awkward position or kill off dps:ers. But that goes for anyway stealing aggro not only offtanks.

    Grobbulus is a nice example, you tank and move along the sides, your TPS is obviosly lower than on stationary fights, if someone rips aggro at the wrong time he turns, shoots green stuff and you end up with 15 green blobs causing a wipe.

    If it was a pally offtank with RF on I would be annoyed to say the least.

  19. #19
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    Progression fights I watch my threat like mad.
    Naxx 25 is on clear. On Noth I pulled agro after a minute or two just from tanking the adds near the boss (add dies, swaps to next target and shields >_>). Warrior told me to keep the boss cause he was doing adds instead. It's good to be in a relaxed guild

  20. #20
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    Noth resets aggro every now and then though(blink), might have caught him on a lucky shot

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