+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 82

Thread: 3.1 Changes to DKs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184

    3.1 Changes to DKs

    From MMO-Champion
    Here is the link to the updated talent tree....
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight

    Death Knight
    Blood Boilís damage increased to make up for Pestilence no longer doing damage.
    Blood Boil now does some damage to undiseased targets and extra damage to diseased targets. Its radius has been decreased.
    Blood Plague: Now lasts 15 seconds untalented.
    Death Pact: This heal cannot be a critical.
    Frost Fever: Now lasts 15 seconds untalented.
    Pestilence does no damage and has only one rank.
    Plague Strike and Blood Plague no longer remove hots. Plague Strikeís damage increased quite a bit to compensate.
    Raise Ally has a >15 min cooldown to keep it out of Arena.
    Raise Dead: Duration lowered to 60 sec. and cooldown lowered to 3 min. The cooldown on this ability now begins when the pet dies rather than when it is summoned.
    Rune of Cinderglacier now procs per minute instead of a 5% chance.
    Rune of Razorfrost now affects Frost damage done by the DK only, but stacks up to 10%.
    Strangulate no longer does damage and has been reduced to 1 rank.

    Talents
    Blood
    Blood Aura: Replaced with Improved Blood Presence. This allows the deathknight to keep the healing from damage done bonus of Blood Presence in any presence, and increases healing received while in Blood Presence.
    Blood-Gorged now grants armor penetration instead of expertise.
    Bloody Strikes now increases Blood Boil damage instead of Pestilence.
    Bloodworms now heal more.
    Dancing Rune Weapon: Fixed a bug making it trigger an unusual number of effects from the weapon equipped by the Death Knight. In addition, it will now only echo Death Knight spells whose primary purpose is dealing damage. Also corrected a bug making the effect last 8 seconds longer than intended.
    Scent of Blood will now proc on a dodge, parry or taking damage, and internal cooldown lowered to 10 from 20 sec.
    Sudden Doom now procs a free Death Coil instead of requiring you to push the button. Ranks reduced from 5 to 3.

    Frost
    The following talents have moved in the Frost tree: Runic Power Mastery, Glacier Rot, Killing Machine, Chilblains, and Endless Winter.
    Black Ice now grants 2/4/6/8/10% Shadow damage in addition to the Frost damage.
    Black Ice: Frost Damage bonus lowered to 4/8/12/16/20%
    Blood of the North is 3 ranks instead of 5 for the same effect.
    Chillblains: Now a 15/30/50% movement speed debuff (up from 30%). Moved to position currently occupied by Glacier Rot.
    Endless Winter: Moved to position currently occupied by Chillblains.
    Frost Aura: Replaced with Improved Frost Presence. Allows the deathknight to keep the health bonus of Frost Presence in any presence, and decreases magic damage taken while in Frost Presence.
    Glacier Rot: Third rank added, and damage bonus increased to 7/13/20. Moved to position currently occupied by Endless Winter.
    Howling Blast: Swapped positions with Hungering Cold in the talent tree (HB is now at 51, and HC is now at 31). In addition, the damage bonus for targets with Frost Fever is now only 20%.
    Icy Talons - This talent how has a new icon.
    Runic Power Mastery down to 2 ranks.

    Unholy
    Blood-caked Blade: Now has a 3 second cooldown on the effect.
    Desecration: This talent now has a 100% chance to be triggered. Additional points in the talent increase the damage bonus and snare magnitude instead of increasing the chance.
    Epidemic: Epidemic now has 3 ranks (adding an additional 3 sec of disease duration). Magic Suppression is 3 ranks (down from 5) for 2/4/6% magic damage reduction.
    Master of Ghouls: Now also reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 60 sec.
    Necrosis: Can now only be triggered by main hand attacks.
    New talent: Improved Death Strike. Increases Death Strike damage by 10/20.
    Night of the Dead: Redesigned to grant a flat reduction on cooldown to Raise Dead and Army of the Dead instead of a reduction from using abilities.
    Outbreak bonus for Scourge Strike lowered to 10/20/30%.
    Scourge Strike: Damage increased.
    Unholy Aura: Replaced with Improved Unholy Presence. Allows the Deathknight to keep the movement speed bonus of Unholy Presence in any presence, and increases rune regeneration rate while in Unholy Presence.
    Unholy Blight and Gargoyle have swapped places in the Unholy tree. Gargoyle is the new Unholy 51 talent.
    Death Knight
    Blood
    Skills
    Pestilence is now 1 rank. It now spreads existing Blood Plague and Frost Fever infections from your target to all other enemies within 10 yards. (Previously dealt damage)
    Strangulate no longer deals damage.
    Blood Boil damage increased, but its range has been reduced.
    Death Pact's heal can no longer crit.
    Blood Strike now instantly strikes the enemy, causing 40% weapon damage plus 305.6, increased by 12.5% per disease on the target at rank 6. (Previously caused 50% weapon damage plus 191, and an additional 95.5 bonus damage per disease)
    Heart Strike now
    instantly strikes the target and his nearest ally, causing 50% weapon damage plus 368, increased by 10% per disease on the target at rank 6. (Previously caused 60% weapon damage plus 220.8, and an additional 110.4 bonus damage per disease)
    Talents
    Blood Gorged (Tier 10) no longer grants expertise. Instead your attacks ignore up to 2/4/6/8/10% of the targets armor.
    Heart Strike (Tier 9) now strikes the target and his nearest ally, causing 50% weapon damage plus 125, increased by 10% per disease on the target.
    Might of Morgraine (Tier 9) now increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Blood Boil, Blood Strike, Death Strike, Heart Strike, and Obliterate abilities by 10/20/30%. (Previously was 15/30/45%)
    Sudden Doom (Tier 8 ) is now a 3 point talent and now has a 5/10/15% chance to launch a free Death Coil at your target. (Previously gave a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to make the next death coil cost no runic power and guaranteed it to crit)
    Blood Aura (Tier 7) renamed Improved Blood Presence and now while in Frost Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 4% healing from Blood Presence, and healing done to you is increased by 10% in Blood Presence.
    Bloody Strikes (Tier 5) now increases the damage of Blood Strike and Heart Strike by 15/30/45%, and increases the damage of Blood Boil by 20/40/60%.
    Scent of Blood (Tier 2) now can proc off dodging, parrying or taking direct damage.
    *New Talent* Improved Death Strike, Tier 8, 2 talent points - Increases the damage of your Death Strike by 15/30%.

    Frost
    Skills
    Icy Touch now causes Frost Fever to last 15 secs.
    Talents
    Hungering Cold and Howling Blast have switched places in the talent tree.
    Howling Blast (Tier 11) now deals 50% additional damage to targets infected with Frost Fever. (Previously dealt double damage)
    Unbreakable Armor (Tier 8 ) now Reinforces your armor with a thick coat of ice, reducing physical damage from all attacks by 0.05 and increasing your strength by 25% for 20 sec. The amount of damage reduced increases as your armor increases. (Previously just increased armor by 25%, strength by 10%, and parry by 5%)
    Blood of the North (Tier 8 ) now affects Frost Strike as well as Blood Strike.
    Chillblains (Tier 7) now reduces movement speed by 15/30/45%. (Previously 10/20/30%)
    Endless Winter moved from Tier 6 to Tier 4.
    Chill of the Grave moved from Tier 5 to Tier 4.
    Runic Power Mastery moved to Tier 1 and is now a 2 point talent. Increases your maximum Runic Power by 15/30. (Previously 3 point talent that increased runic power by 10/20/30)
    Black Ice (Tier 2) increases your frost damage by 4/8/12/16/20%. (Previously 6/12/18/24/30%)
    Glacier Rot moved from Tier 1 to Tier 5 and is now a 3 point talent. Now diseased enemies take 7/13/20% more damage from your Icy Touch, Howling Blast and Frost Strike. (Previously 5/10%)

    Unholy
    Skills
    Plague Strike now deals 50% weapon damage plus 189 and infects the target with Blood Plague, a disease dealing Shadow damage over time. (No longer removes a HoT)
    Raise Dead cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 3 minutes. The ghoul now only lasts for 1 minute.
    Talents
    Unholy Blight moved from Tier 11 to Tier 5.
    Scourge Strike (Tier 9) now deals 55% of weapon damage as Shadow damage plus 185.63, increased 9% per each of your diseases on the target. (Previously dealt 60% of weapon damage as Shadow damage plus 81, and an additional 40.5 bonus damage per disease.)
    Night of the Dead (Tier 8 ) now reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 45/90 sec and Army of the Deat by 5/10 min. (Previously reduced cooldown when you hit the target)
    Desecration (Tier 7) now causes all Plague Strikes to cause the desecrated ground effect. Targets in the area are slowed by 10/20/30/40/50% by the grasping arms of the dead while you cause 1/2/3/4/5% additional damage while standing on the unholy ground. Lasts 12 sec.
    Anti-Magic Zone (Tier 7) no longer requires a rune to activate.
    Unholy Aura (Tier 7) renamed Improved Unholy Presence and changed to: While in Blood Presence or Frost Presence, you retain 8/15% increased movement speed from Unholy Presence, and your runes finish their cooldowns 5/10% faster in Unholy Presence.
    Magic Supression (Tier 6) is now a 3 point talent and You take 2/4/6% less damage from all magic. In addition, your Anti-Magic Shell absorbs an additional 8/16/25% of spell damage. (Previously a 5 point talent)
    Master of Ghouls moved from Tier 6 to Tier 4. It now also reduces the cooldown of your Raise Dead spell by 60 sec.
    Summon Gargoyle moved from Tier 5 to Tier 11.
    Blood-Caked Blade (Tier 4) now has a 3 sec internal cooldown.
    Shadow of Death removed from the game.
    Outbreak (Tier 3) no longer affects Blood Boil. It now affects Plague Strike and Scourge Strike.
    Necrosis (Tier 3) now only affects main hand auto attacks. (Previously affected all auto-attacks)
    Virulence moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1.
    Morbidity moved from Tier 1 to Tier 2.
    *New Talent* Ghoul Frenzy, Tier 6, 1 point talent - Grants your pet 25% haste for 15 sec and heals it for 30% of its health over the duration. 1 Unholy Rune. 45 Yard range. Channeled. 30 sec cooldown.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184
    I am interested in playing around with Blood again, that new Death Strike talent might be real nice.

    Thinking builds along these lines...
    Frost
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

    Blood
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

    Thinking something like this for DPS/Solo mode
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9614
    Last edited by Urrick; 02-24-2009 at 06:03 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    27
    Oro is not impressed.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    275
    Wow, going to have to relearn our class once again....

    Im going to wait a few more weeks, then ill start working on a tanking spec guide.
    I cast the spells that make the people fall over.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    THAT was the balance I was looking for.

    Pest does no dmg (damn loss of initial threat on AoE)
    BB does more dmg (ok, longer running more threat and more dmg on AoE)
    PS does more dmg (woot, pvp nerf, we're OP anyway, but 100% buff in PvE, and a buff to our initial threat profile!)

    I'm really sad to see Unholy Aura go, but the talent's dps implications are pretty frickin huge. Even 2 sec faster rune CDs would be a major buff.

    I like that Desecration is a smarter talent to scale, rather than a 5-pt all or nothing (my opinion, I like reliability with a talent like that).

    Not surprisingly 0/32/39 is dead as is any outstanding components to put dual wielding above 2-handers. For dps it looks like it is really on the DK for personal choice now.

    There is no mention of fixing the 3rd disease stacking problem, but I'm REALLY hoping that they fix that. For those who aren't aware or haven't been in that situation, currently you cannot have multiple instances of Crypt Fever/Ebon Plague on the same target, which means if you have more than one unholy DK (or someone whose spec relies on 3 diseases) that only one will have the fully buffed dmg at any given time. I will be providing frequent feedback on the PTR to see that that gets attention, and if you join the testing as well, please do the same.

    Frost looks like the talent tree may build a little smoother, but we'll see how that works out.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184
    I like that you can get the full pet a little easier and don't mind the loss of Shadow Of Death.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Here are the glyph changes, the world of glyph selection just got a WHOLE lot more difficult!! I love a bunch of this!


    Death Knight (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
    • Glyph of Strangulate -- Reduces the cooldown of your Strangulate by 60 sec. (Old: Inceases the range of your Strangulate by 20 yards.)
    • Glyph of Icebound Fortitude -- Your Icebound Fortitude now always grants at least 30% damage reduction, regardless of your defense skill. (Old: Your Icebound Fortitude costs no runic power)
    • Glyph of Unbreakable Armor -- Increases the amount of damage absorbed by Unbreakable Armor by 1%. (Old: Unbreakable Armor grants an additional 15% armor)
    • Glyph of Plague Strike -- Your Plague Strike does 60% additional damage. (Old: 20% additional damage if a disease was on the target)
    • Glyph of Death Strike -- Increases your Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 runic power you currently have. The runic power is not consumed by this effect. (Old: 2% regardless of runic power)
    • Glyph of Hungering Cold *new* -- Reduces the cost of Hungering Cold by 10 runic power.
    • Glyph of Unholy Blight *new* -- Increases the duration of Unholy Blight by 10 sec.
    • Glyph of Death Coil *new* -- Reduces the cost of Death Coil by 8 runic power.
    • Glyph of Pestilence *new* -- Your Pestilence ability now refreshes disease durations on your primary target back to their maximum duration.
    • Glyph of Howling Blast *new* -- Your Howling Blast ability now infects your targets with Frost Fever.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184
    I'm not sure how long that Pest one will last. It's almost too good.

    Really looks like they want Blood to be able to use DS as a viable alternative to Oblit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    I assume the language will be clarified and the effect only works with diseases already on them.

    And DS could become more viable for all tanks, with the new tier 1 DS talent. We'll have to see how that works out though. =) Everything can and will change.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    234
    double post
    Last edited by Feanorr; 02-24-2009 at 03:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    And DS could become more viable for all tanks, with the new tier 1 DS talent.

    If you are talking about Improved Death strike, it seem to be an error in the patch note; it's a tier 8 talent in the blood tree, according to the mmo talent calculator (and undocumented changes)
    And it make more sense in blood that unholy, cause a unholy DK will use scourge strike over DS; blood dont have an alternative that dont eat diseases.


    Edit: sorry for double post, I though my first one didnt worked
    Last edited by Feanorr; 02-24-2009 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    281
    Overall, I'm dissappointed. I think the desire to reign in DW dps and adjust PvP aspect of DKs resulted in considerable changes without a clear purpose. Where a change could be made to nerf DW/adjust PvP, it was made to the talents. A little moderation (and PTR testing by players) would have certainly helped. At this moment, it's looking like a massive open beta for DKs on PTR 3.1 instead of a more incremental series of tweaks that most other classes are seeing currently.

    Semi-related, I saw a patch note listing BoSanc as only giving mana back now, instead of rage/runic power/mana. If that is accurate, we're going to be shifting into the Heroic Strike conundrum, as we're going to need to more actively employ Runestrike instead of being able to macro it to a few/all abilities to generate threat.

    The irony is the discussion of rage generation innate to warriors via a 3.1 ability, while druids/paladins have talents to generate rage/mana. Is there discussion to have a similar mechanic for DKs, where we dodge/parry we get runic power?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    The patch notes and the MMO talent calculator aren't in sync, and I haven't been able to get on the PTR yet. I also am not sure if the patch notes include changes that haven't been added yet.

    DS does seem to be buffed in late Blood though, and that's good, that's where it should be.

    And Esch, the talent changes are not random juggling. There are some moves, but most of it actually makes the trees even more coherent than they used to be and allow for cleaner specs. The 51-pt talents are all pretty much on par and are actually incentives depending on role/purpose, and there are more pleasant supporting talents earlier in the trees. They have a clear purpose, whether or not you see it.

    We also do have a mechanism for getting RP from dodge/parry, it's the new and improved Scent of Blood, and it is not too shabby. And, I rarely get the pleasure of BoSanc, which is a little much for a DK tank, but I still macro RS and use it heavily that way.

    Out of curiosity, how would you reign in dual wielding dps and pvp if not through talents?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Out of curiosity, how would you reign in dual wielding dps and pvp if not through talents?
    I would have focused on about a third of the changes - enough to get to PTR and see how it impacted the game. By changing so much, even with internal testing, they're opening up a considerable amount of things to test, adjust, retest and get to a Dev's ideal-level for the abilities. We've got more changes to single spec's than some classes got in this pass. The only class I can compare this volume of change to was the 1.08 Druids which made feral and balance viable.

    (Offhand, the HB change alone would probably have hammered DW enough to get a refocus on 2H DPS specs)

    As I said, I feel we're in for a round of Beta, even if everything is more synergistic. A key issue is the limited (and conflicting) information we've got so far, which isn't helping. Personally, I got my transfers in finally, so I'll be able to play on PTR.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Here are the glyph changes, the world of glyph selection just got a WHOLE lot more difficult!! I love a bunch of this!


    Death Knight (Skills List / Talent + Glyph Calc.)
    • Glyph of Strangulate -- Reduces the cooldown of your Strangulate by 60 sec. (Old: Inceases the range of your Strangulate by 20 yards.)
    • Glyph of Icebound Fortitude -- Your Icebound Fortitude now always grants at least 30% damage reduction, regardless of your defense skill. (Old: Your Icebound Fortitude costs no runic power)
    • Glyph of Unbreakable Armor -- Increases the amount of damage absorbed by Unbreakable Armor by 1%. (Old: Unbreakable Armor grants an additional 15% armor)
    • Glyph of Plague Strike -- Your Plague Strike does 60% additional damage. (Old: 20% additional damage if a disease was on the target)
    • Glyph of Death Strike -- Increases your Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 5 runic power you currently have. The runic power is not consumed by this effect. (Old: 2% regardless of runic power)
    • Glyph of Hungering Cold *new* -- Reduces the cost of Hungering Cold by 10 runic power.
    • Glyph of Unholy Blight *new* -- Increases the duration of Unholy Blight by 10 sec.
    • Glyph of Death Coil *new* -- Reduces the cost of Death Coil by 8 runic power.
    • Glyph of Pestilence *new* -- Your Pestilence ability now refreshes disease durations on your primary target back to their maximum duration.
    • Glyph of Howling Blast *new* -- Your Howling Blast ability now infects your targets with Frost Fever.
    Oh dear Lord, I hope that some of those new glyphs are minor ones, especially Howling Blast. The major glyph decisions are hard enough to make as it is, while must-have DK minor glyphs are extremely limited.
    "The future is like heaven, everyone exalts it, but no one wants to go there now." - James Baldwin

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by AK404 View Post
    Oh dear Lord, I hope that some of those new glyphs are minor ones, especially Howling Blast. The major glyph decisions are hard enough to make as it is, while must-have DK minor glyphs are extremely limited.
    I doubt that any of this is minor, it's too powerfull for minor.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    22
    I think perhaps the HB changes went a bit far.

    Across the board, the DK ae threat nerfs for everyone but unholy are huge.

    <irrational rant>
    Either the damage reduction OR the tier switch would have probably been more than sufficient to effectively cripple the DW specs; this heavyhanded change will have a massive effect on the specs available to Frost tanks as well. Want to tank as Frost? Go 51 points or you might as well go unholy. Blood/Frost hybrid? LOL.

    Now Frost tanks are forced to go to 51 points to keep the reason many of them specced Frost in the first place; snap ae aggro.

    Not only that, it's questionable whether it's even worth it to go there.

    Way to make it a useless talent. I'll just spec Unholy, thanks, and pick up UB at 21 points. Seems like that's what they want us all to do, so I guess I'll get with the program.

    Good luck tanking trash and 5 mans at all without morbidity in 3.1... that 5/8/5 just turned into 5/8/8. Do they really think our dps will wait for us to apply two diseases, pesti, then BB just to cement initial aggro? Just merge pesti and BB into one talent already. We're hurting enough on the GCDs trying to ae tank.

    Almost enough to give me Shockwave/Tclap envy. Almost.
    </irrational rant>

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Eemo View Post
    I think perhaps the HB changes went a bit far.

    Across the board, the DK ae threat nerfs for everyone but unholy are huge.
    I dont see how it's a nerf to blood aoe; in fact I see a buff for blood aoe cause BB got buffed and blood got some BB talents (+60% damage). So the initial threat may be a little less but we already needed morbidity for AOE as blood honestly.
    For frost yes it hurt.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    261
    Unholy looks strong atm and hb will most likely be buffed/nerfed during the ptr(hopefully they wont nerf it to much).

    The new glyphs looks realy nice and the improved scent of blood talent is interesting. Not sure if i got the right numbers, but i got scent of blood to give you about 60 runic power each minute(with a boss that hits each 2 sec). Anyone else looked into this?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by nips View Post
    the improved scent of blood talent is interesting. Not sure if i got the right numbers, but i got scent of blood to give you about 60 runic power each minute(with a boss that hits each 2 sec). Anyone else looked into this?
    Not sure too but here what I'm reading there :
    Scent of blood :
    15% chance after dodgind / parrying or taking direct damage to get the scent of blood. This effect give 5 RP generation to the next 3 melee hit (assuming strkie or whites). Cannot occur more often than once every 10 sec.

    Now what are theses 15% proc. I'm really bad when it comes to stats, but I'm pretty sure that means every 7 hits we can assume this to proc. Given the 10 sec CD and a 2 sec boss that leads to something like 4 ppm. Assuming 4 ppm this is something like 60 RP per minute.
    So same result here, this may be what you've done. But this whole thing turns around the fact we are saying that it takes 7 hits to proc Sent of Blood. I can't say this is correct or this is wrong. Maybe someone can here ?

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts