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Thread: Bleeds, Weapon Speeds, and Tanking

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    Jan 2008

    Bleeds, Weapon Speeds, and Tanking

    Bleeds, Weapon Speed, and Tanking
    With this post I'm going to summarize and explain the best way to maximize threat/dps with regards to Deep Wounds and Rend in an approachable, painless way. The aim is to cover every possible situation; whether you're aiming for threat or dps, in a single target or AoE situation, rage-limited or rage-saturated, you should be able to find the best way to use your bleeds in this post. Math will be kept to a minimum, I promise

    I've also included with this post a revamped spreadsheet that does Deep Wounds threat comparisons, similar to the one found here.

    1. Intro
    2. Summary (TL;DR)
    3. The Spreadsheet
    4. Rotation without Rend
    4.1 Single Target
    4.2 Multitarget
    5. Rotation with Rend
    5.1 Single Target
    5.2 Multitarget

    1. Intro
    I'll keep this short and to the point: there are two ways to do your optimal threat rotation. The first is the standard you'll find all over tankspot and the internets in general. The second is a modification of this standard, which involves using Rend. Both of these rotations will be covered in their respective sections.

    I don't think I need to explain the standard rotation; it's pretty simple, and again, it's all over the place. What I will explain is the Rend variant.

    Lets look at your standard rotation, descending by priority:
    Shield Slam          } These might be swapped depending on your gear/talents
    Shockwave/Conc Blow  } but for the purposes of this discussion, they're fine like this
    If we want to start using Rend, where does it go in this rotation? From both a damage and threat perspective, it turns out that Rend is only superior to Devastate. Practically speaking, this means that you should only worry about keeping Rend up if all SS, Revenge, Conc. Blow, and Shockwave are on CD. For ideal threat generation, you should only reapply Rend when its duration has completed.
    Shield Slam
    Shockwave/Conc Blow
    I did a bit of simulation, and it turns out a "perfectly" played tank (in this case, the tank is also keeping up TC/Demo Shout, which has a small impact) will be able to keep a Rend up roughly every 17 seconds. This is factoring in Hit/Expertise. The reason it's 17 seconds instead of 15 boils down to GCD slots, basically.

    2. Summary

    Single Target - Use a fast weapon. If you have Imp. Rend, use Rend if the target is above 75% health, or if you have Mangle/Trauma.
    Multiple Target - Use a slow weapon. Use Rend if you feel like it - there are pros and cons to it.

    If you want to maximize your threat/dps, Imp. Rend is a must-have in your spec.

    3. The Spreadsheet
    The spreadsheet attached along with this post is based on the DW model in this post. It uses Zapp's modeling, with a few improvements/tweaks. It models single-target threat/dps very accurately, allowing for stat input, HS uptime, boss swing speed, and other factors. It's primary use is really just as a weapon comparison tool - you can see if that new weapon that drops in Ulduar is better than your old one of a different speed, and things like that. (Interesting tidbit: 90% of the time, Broken Promise is worse than Red Sword of Courage)

    4. Rotation without Rend
    The decision to use Rend builds off a normal threat rotation, so we'll optimize that before moving on.

    4.1 Single Target
    This graph pretty much says it all. It graphs threat for a 140 DPS weapon at different AP levels, and fairly standard hit/expertise levels. The graph is of (Fast TPS - Slow TPS); in other words, positive values favor fast weapons, while negative values favor slow weapons. The different colored lines are for different HS uptimes.

    If you're looking for more exact numbers, the spreadsheet is the place to go; this graph works best as a rough guide.

    If you're concerned with DPS rather than TPS, things shift slightly towards slow weapons. You'll probably want to use a slow weapon if your HS uptime is less than 75%.

    4.2 Multiple Targets
    AoE tanking threat has two components: target-capped threat, and AoE threat. Target capped threat makes up the majority of your ability usage, since any ability that has limited targets falls under this category. The only uncapped moves you have are Thunderclap and Shockwave.

    Now, target capped threat is going to be spread out among all the mobs you're tanking - this means that the more mobs on you, the less it actually matters. Looking at the slow vs fast discussion, there's only one move that favors fast weapons: Cleave. Cleave, as it happens, is target capped. A fast weapon gets a 77 TPS gain over a slow weapon, but this TPS gain is spread out among all your targets. The more mobs you're tanking, the better a slow weapon gets.

    But what's the crossover point for weapons of equal DPS? Two mobs, actually. Below roughly 2.7k AP, a fast weapon is the best choice for multi-target tanking. If your AP is greater than 2.7k, or you're tanking more than two mobs, you always want to be using a slow weapon. If you're after DPS, that crossover point is even lower, to the point where you should always be using a slow weapon.

    Note: I'd like to eventually go back and modify the spreadsheet to include comparisons for multitarget tanking, but it's not a priority right now.

    5. Rotation with Rend
    Rend is a little messy to calculate, since it throws off your Devastate usage, which in turn affects your Shield Slam usage. Rend also can't crit, while Devastate has a high crit chance, so you're also losing a bit of Deep Wounds damage.

    5.1 Single Target
    I looked at three gearing points for this: Post Heroics/Early Naxx, Post Naxx, and an estimated Post Ulduar. The results were the same for all of them (both unbuffed and raid buffed):

    For a fast weapon:
    If Imp. Rend and Mangle/Trauma are up, Rend is a DPS and TPS gain.
    If Imp. Rend is up and the target has high health, Rend is a TPS/DPS gain.

    The DPS gain will be something around 20dps, and the TPS gain something around 10tps.

    For a slow weapon:
    Rend is a DPS and TPS gain.

    The DPS gain will be something around 35dps, and the TPS gain somewhere around 30tps.

    The ~10 DPS/TPS gain when using a slow weapon is something to consider when selecting between a slow or fast weapon. I didn't add it into the spreadsheet, because there are too many factors to accurately differentiate between the two.

    5.2 Multiple Target
    If you're using a slow weapon, Rend will always be a TPS and DPS increase over Devastate. Since you're probably using a slow weapon to do multitarget tanking, you'll want to use Rend when doing multitarget tanking, in order to maximize your DPS/TPS output. However, do keep in mind that Sunder Armor helps physical DPS hit harder, and is also easier to keep track of. Maintaining Rend on four targets and inserting Devastates as needed on targets that already have Rend is a tough task, and in practice might be a DPS/TPS loss.

    If you're using a fast weapon, you probably don't want to Rend. The likelihood of having Mangle/Trauma up on the targets you're rending is lower, and it's only worthwhile if your targets are above 75% health. In the end, it probably won't be worth the trouble.

    Anyone interested in the theory behind this post should see this thread. If people are really interested, I could post the additional math I did (for rend and similar), but it's mostly just a collection of scrap paper, text files with numbers and values, and a spreadsheet or two automating some of the calculations. Not very pretty stuff.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by shiz98; 02-20-2009 at 04:56 PM.

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